Why I believe the 4Runner line will die in 2023.

Is the 6th Gen going to have auto stop-start? Is it going to jerk the steering wheel when the computer thinks you're about to drift out of your lane, even though you aren't? Is it going to buzz and vibrate and flash at you over the stupidest crap? Is its computer going to chide you when the camera that's been peering at your face your whole drive thinks your eyeballs haven't been spending enough time focused on the road ahead?

Has anyone on here who's looking forward to the 6th Gen experienced what most modern cars are doing these days?

My wife's Passport is only half this bad and it's already infuriating. You have to disable auto stop-start every time you get behind the wheel; it won't stay off between starts. (In some cars, you can't even disable it until the computer thinks the engine has warmed sufficiently, so you're not even sure when you have to do it). The lane-correcting feature is multi leveled and too inscrutable to even know how to turn off completely. You can turn off lane keep (which when active won't keep you centered in your lane anyway), but the emergency road-departure system remains on. The auto braking system is paranoid, flashing at you for no reason and sometimes slamming on the brakes completely unnecessarily.

At least some of this kind of crap is what we can expect from the 6th Gen. No thank you, I rather get 16 MPG.

 

I either want to keep mine for a really long time for the reason you stated, or get rid of it fairly soon while it's still worth something and the chassis intact. (Because New England)

Not sure what I'd replace it with, which is why I'm always looking at beaters. A Sienna actually did cross my mind. I camp to mountain bike more than I off-road, so a Sienna is arguably a better tool for that job.

There's actually a guy in a regional overlanding group that I belong to that has a lifted Sienna, he said he likes it a lot for the space, and the lifts helps out on rougher dirt roads, though it's still definitely not an off-roader. He also said he gets about 18 to 19 MPG with it, which is what I typically get with my 4Runner.

 

I’m in the same boat he was…out of 6 dealerships in the greater Colorado Springs/ Denver area when I bought mine (June), there was exactly one 4Runner in stock, an SR5. Aside from that a minimum 3 month wait list at all dealerships. I looked into dealerships from Albuquerque to Flagstaff, same thing.

 

It's going to have the safety crap regardless. So, we can get 16 MPG and be annoyed or get 20+ MPG and be annoyed. All things being equal, I'll take better mileage and power.

And, my work Chevy has the stupid safety nannies and auto start. Super annoying at times. Auto start is the worst. I could see this saving a gallon or 2 annually for people who only drive in the city. I disable it pretty much every time I drive it.

 

I don't mind the turbo thing, actually welcome it. But I don't think it'll be like in my 20s with my Civic or Starion, just putting the 65mm turbo and burning everyone. LOL.

I may have the unknown built up in my head too much. LOL.

 

The difference is, I'm not annoyed by 16 MPG (Or I should say 17, which is what I've averaged over 20K miles). I totally, completely, absolutely appreciate that it's a big deal for some owners, and they'd gladly accept the poorly performing safety nannies to get significantly higher MPG. I'm certainly not questioning their priorities. I'm just saying they're not my priorities. I'd be happy to have the option of full autonomous driving when and if that ever becomes a real thing. But I'd also want to be able to easily turn it off completely, and not have to worry that it could be activated against my will remotely over the internet via the cellular connection. But what we actually have now, espec with these basically incompetent lane keeping systems, and overactive emergency braking systems, is just ridiculous IMO. And for me it's just totally a killjoy.

This is why I'm not enthused by almost any new vehicle that's coming out. Avoiding that crap for as long as possible was a major reason I got my 4Runner in 2020. And a major reason I just got a manual trans GR86 a couple months ago.

PS -- ironically, in my experience, Chevy/GM is actually better at this stuff than the Japanese companies. I was impressed by lane keep on the Tahoe I drove. Every Japanese car I've tried with it has been an embarrassment, careening the car from side to side in the lane and often doing absolutely nothing when in fact you'd want it to. The tech is just not that good yet.

 

What I'm saying is that the 6th gen is going to have the safety nannies either way. So, the choice is between bad gas mileage and just ok power VS better gas mileage and power.

 

Obv, most or all of the tech crap won't be optional on the 6th Gen. That, and less certainty about reliability and durability, will be part of the price of getting improvements in MPG and power.

But that's exactly my point. The choice is actually between a 5th Gen that has little of this tech crap but also poor MPG and (to some) poor power -- and a 6th Gen that has a bunch of that crap while fixing the MPG and purported power issues. You're leaving out the tech crap in this comparison.

Anyone now prepared to buy a 6th Gen could instead by a new 5th Gen while they're still available. Or take their chances on grabbing a leftover when the 6th Gen comes out and we all know much more about it. That's the choice.

Again, I don't fault anyone who favors the 6th Gen side of this equation. I'm just explaining why I never will.

 

I've have used/messed with the lane departure in our RAv4 Prime, and did not find it that bad, now the radar cruise which I use sometimes could use some work.

 

Doesn't your 2020 already have safety sense?

 

Fortunately its only active safety system is auto emergency braking. I’d rather not have it and sometimes kick myself for not pulling the trigger on the 19 I looked at, but in fairness it hasn’t been that bad so far in actual use. It’s flashed a “BRAKE!” warning a few times when there was zero need for it (fog seems to do it, for example) but thankfully it’s not also applied the brakes. So I don’t despise it. I’m also mollified a bit by the knowledge I can pull the DCM fuse to prevent remote activation of the brakes over the internet.

Can’t say the same for our 2021 Honda Passport. That system is so bad it might be dangerous. It’s certainly annoying as F.

 

Well, each manufacturer has their own safety tech and how they do things.

Seems like Toyota's system is tolerable to you.

I imagine Toyota builds on their current system the way it currently is rather than dramatically change things on one new vehicle.

 

get a grip

 

To be clear, that's an overstatement. I'm finding my current and very limited safety tech somewhat tolerable so far. The words I used were "I don't despise it." Not really a ringing endorsement.

And I don't have good reason to believe I'd feel the same way about more extensive systems from Toyota.

 

Lol fine, didn’t know we were in court. But as it seems we are:

1. I then summarized my feelings about it as “I don’t despise it.”

2. The fact that I’ve found “it hasn’t been that bad so far in actual use” contains “so far” and “that bad” and also is not and nor was it intended to be a complete accounting of my view of these systems. I can still dislike these systems while not having had the experience of it actually fucking me so far.

A bit rich of you trying to tell me what I think. It’s clear what I think. I don’t like these systems. The systems on my 2020 are gratefully much less intrusive than on most new cars.

So I dislike it less than I would on those other cars — and thus presumably on the 6th Gen.

All I've been doing -- and quite consistently so across multiple threads on these topics over many months -- is say I personally dislike a lot of the new tech and that's one of the reasons I like my 5th Gen and am not optimistic about the 6th.

I really respect your contributions to this forum. But not really sure what you were trying to accomplish with your post here…

 

I'm not trying to pick a fight. So my apologies if it came across that way.

Simply put, you said my assessment of the situation was overstated when I said "seems like Toyota's system is tolerable to you."

I wrote that statement based on your quote "in fairness, it hasn't been that bad so far in actual use."

That's all.

 

Yep, I get it. Which is why I replied to clarify. Your summary of my thoughts was an overstatement of what I actually think. So I just clarified. I didn't perceive any ill intent, was just trying to be clear. And at that point all was well.

Why you then felt the need to argue about my clarification... well that was a bit something...

 

Again, apologies. But I don't see where I was arguing.

My post was to simply clarify why I used the word "tolerable".

You've made it clear that you're not a fan. Understood.

 

Thx I really appreciate your contributions to the forum. One of the reasons it’s a good community.

 

And I yours

 

Guess the OP sewed his seeds of discontent and bounced haha

 

Damn, I'm late to the party with my completely uninformed opinion. :/

I'm ok with the Land Cruiser name replacing the 4runner. As long as it's got the same or better capabilities, isn't ugly AF like a Lexus, and doesn't lose it's cargo volume to a giant hybrid battery.

Meanwhile, the virtue signallers in local parking lots have started taking their rage out on my 4runner. My 5th dent and scratch to the bare metal in 2 months - basically people bashing their keys into my car at heights above a door or bumper ding.

 

I think we're having two different conversations.

Someone mentioned earlier that they should just keep making the 5th gen, instead of redesigning it. So, you'd be looking at the same drivetrain we have with a bunch of new safety features, instead of a new, more efficient drivetrain and safety features.

My point was that, if reliability was equal (which is obviously unknown), I'd rather have more power and better fuel economy.

I was never saying anything about choosing between the 5th gen and the unknown 6th generation. If that's what we're talking about, I have nothing against anyone wanting to keep something they trust over something new and unknown.

 

Ah, got it. In that case though I’d note that the 5th Gen probably can’t incorporate as many active safety features as other new cars given its architecture. In particular I’m thinking of the hydraulic steering. It’s electric steering that enables lane keeping, road departure mitigation, etc. So Toyota would prob need to make signif changes, not be able to just slap new tech onto the existing systems.

 

I'm not a big fan of electric steering. As far as the safety features, they look good on paper, but seem to be a nuisance most of the time. My Chevy yells at me if someone ahead is in the process of turning and I am approaching too fast.

 

https://youtu.be/q1QrAaouPYI

https://www.caranddriver.com/featur...nected-car-ever-be-safe-from-hacking-feature/

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/new...-xm-and-hyundai-app-vulnerability/ar-AA14MQea

https://hitachi-systems-security.com/smart-car-security-threats-is-the-connected-car-a-good-idea/

https://upstream.auto/blog/threats-facing-connected-cars-fleets/

https://www.techspot.com/news/57455...ol-of-door-locks-wipers-sunroof-and-more.html

https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomas...ed-by-police-ice-cbp-love-it/?sh=69046b7069d8

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35928865/connected-car-hacking-problems-nhtsa/

 

Yeah this worked like a charm for the Bronco lol

 

So, don't drive a Jeep, don't pay for Onstar, and a Chinese company might guess your 6 digit PIN on your Tesla. Way ahead of you.

Or I could pay for the Toyota Onstar equivalent and have my 4Runner be remotely shut down when it gets stolen so cops can pull the thief over and arrest him with getting my 4Runner back as a bonus. Hm... It's almost as if that's not a bad idea...

Ain't nobody doing this connectivity for free. Even when your Toyota's free Onstar trial expires, they charge you some exorbitant amount of money to turn it on immediately.

If you're worried about a stalker ex girlfriend falsely reporting that your 4Runner was stolen, I think you've got bigger problems than big brother.