Why I believe the 4Runner line will die in 2023.

FIFY.

 

I have owned four FCA vehicles, currently own two, they are solid.

 

Ha!

 

It is the modern-day Comanche with puppy eyes

 

I always see these around my town, never on a trail, and driven by teenager girls with ducks on dashboard

 

Stellantis - need to throw in the Peugeot management DNA in there

 

Nothing wrong in driving a beefed up Jeep around town lol

 

Seriously, it is a good truck. Comes with the proven 3.6, and ZF or Aisin transmissions.

 

I like Wranglers. But, the Gladiator looks disproportionate.

I'm sure they're not terrible, but I don't see how they're so much better than a Taco. Max towing and payload aren't enough to make a clear winner, as mid-size trucks aren't really ideal for heavy towing or hauling. Either one will be sufficient for the market.

Off-road capability only matters to a small percentage of buyers. And, even though the Gladiator wins here, the Taco is no slouch.

Everyday driving experience is likely to be better in the Taco, with IFS and less wind noise. As much as we love taking our vehicles off road, this is an important quality to most buyers.

 

I don’t remember the exact time line, but before buying my 2017 taco, I was hoping to consider the Jeep Truck, I really like the looks of the old ones, but the new one made me run away.

I had a salvage Cherokee sport, loved it. Straight 6 was awesome. Then they had to screw that all up, so I bought my first Toyota truck. Toyota treated me so well on the rust buy back, that I could help but buy a Tacoma. And I had no reason to try anything else. We even shopped Jeep’s again when replacing my wife’s ride, she didn’t want to but I convinced her. To this day she still makes fun of me for making her test drive a few Jeep’s.

I wanted to like it, but my eyes said NO.

 

Gladiator would be cool (and proportioned correctly) if it only had 2 doors. The stretch to make it 4 door makes it look weird to me.

As for reliability... I've had a 99, 05, and 17 Wrangler. I felt the 99 and 05 were put together more solidly. However, neither the 05 or the 17 ever gave me any trouble (I bought them new, the 99 was a used/abused dumpster fire when I got it).

I wonder if the poor reliability correlates to the available aftermarket everything for the Jeeps vs more limited aftermarket for Toyota? Sure, a few hardcore peeps do extensive mods on their 4R, but the vast majority leave them stock. Whereas on a Jeep, those who don't tear it apart and add on every tacky branded gimmick are the minority.

Short version of my theory; 4Runners are more reliable because significantly fewer know-nothing mall crawler wannabe's are screwing up 4Runners with cheaply made aftermarket parts and unnecessary mods.

 

Looks a 2 door Jeep to me from the waving distance, I am waving at them in my Grand Cherokee

 

Jeep aftermarket is vast. You can throw 35s in there with as little as a few hundred bucks, you know it. And naturally those cheap stuff break. I like Teraflex, they are quality. Mopar is not too bad either and it doesn't void any warranties.

Here, a 2 door Gladiator for you lol

 

I considered a Cherokee TH but other than not being that into the Jeep look and the cargo space, the sheer volume of engine and transmission complaints (some electricals sprinkled in) make my Sorento - with two I4 engines prone to seizing/knocking and one V6 prone to headbolts/threads failing - look statistically reliable. It blows away the complaints for the CR-V, RAV4, 4Runner of similar years combined who have sold more combined too. (although the '16 CR-V and Sorento have comparable engine complaint counts on CarComplaints, the former is for vibration at idle, the latter is outright failure.)

I don't doubt some FCA/Stellantis products can last but it's more labor figuring out the golden configuration.

It used to be thought the 1.0T Focus was the only "good" automatic one with it's non-crappy conventional automatic. Well, turns out the internet overlooked the wet oil pump belt. It loves to fail early and clog the oil intake. And pricey replacement service awaits when it does last.

 

Yes



no

 

I have experience with a Jeep Wrangler JK, it's been fine. The only engine I would even consider is the 3.6 pentastar V6, it's an NA engine that is fine. People say it has serious problems, but with maintenance I've never encountered them. If you hate the Wrangler engine, the Jeep community is big on swapping engines, buy one with a blown engine for cheap.

What Jeep does with the Wrangler is commendable. Jeep listens to its fan base, they haven't gone to IFS, they did crazy things like put a V8 in a Wrangler, and they still offer a manual in both the Wrangler and Gladiator. Before the Gladiator, a lot of people were asking for a Jeep pickup, and they did it. Might not like how it looks, but at least Jeep made it exist for the people that wanted it. They even offered a diesel on the Wrangler (it was an awful engine). Jeep isn't afraid to take risks. This is what pisses me off about Toyota, they won't give North America a vehicle designed without compromises to go off road.

So if your going hard off road, your better off with a Jeep. You don't have to worry about snapping a CV axle, you can lift them easily, fit lockers with fewer worries. If you want to mod a Toyota like that it gets expensive, and you'll still need to hammer the wheel wells to fit larger tires. And in the end you'll never have as robust a setup as a Wrangler because Toyota wont sell vehicles designed from the ground up to go off road in the US.

On road, Toyota wins reliability hands down.

 

My JK and JL treated me just fine. The 3.6 paired with the ZF 8 speed is a really solid set up. Sure there were a lot of other compromises with a 2 door rubicon, but it was absolutely unstoppable. My old JK had over 180K miles on it when I saw it last. It has had no engine or transmission issues at all.

 

It won't die, but it's going to be a vehicle that disappoints most previous gen 4Runner fans. I'm 99% certain the 4R's days of being a Japanese built truck are over. The 4R is only sold in specific markets in North and South America; it makes no sense to make a vehicle that is so heavily mass produced on the other side of the world, just so Toyota can pay a ton of money shipping it overseas only. On the other hand, it makes perfects sense to build them right smack dab in the middle of Mexico where they cam easily be transported to both continents at a fraction of the cost.

Then of course there's it's place in the Toyota lineup. As we have all expected, the 4R will sit between the RAV4 and LC250 in Toyota's SUV lineup. If pricing trends in recent years are anything to go by, a base 4R will probably start in the low 40s and top out slightly above the base LC250 in the low 60s, maybe very high 50s. Since they are likely going to have the same engine options, I can see a lot of people choosing to pay a bit more for the LC given the prestige around the name.

And then of course, the powertrain is probably going to leave a lot of us disappointed given the addition of turbos and almost assuredly a hybrid/turbo option to. It's been said a million times already, but the days of the 4R being a 300k+ miles vehicle are numbered, at least without a new hybrid battery or two, and extensive turbo work performed. It'll still be reliable, but nit nearly as reliable as the current 4.0 V6.

The 5th Gen prices probably won't skyrocket like some have speculated, but I can see depreciation being cut in half. I can even see the Pro trim more or less retaining it's value in the high 40s and low 50s for years to come. I definitely anticipate a similar level of disappointment that the Tundra and Sequoia have received with the 6th gen. However, it'll probably still sell well for the most part, but lack the draw of the 5th and 4th gens.

 

The discounts are nuts, it's possible to get a nicely equipped Rubicon for 45-ish now.

I'm even considering one.

 

Have you seen the number of Tacoma bros out there?? I went to a trail run last month, like 25 out of 30 vehicles were Tacomas.

 

200,000 miles ain't 700,000 miles.

 

A gazillion Pentastars out there with 500k or more on them. One made it to I think 600k+ miles.


https://youtu.be/CDjvfd9mo5s?si=9yviT4lcED9Qt5EZ

 

That's still a small percentage of midsized truck buyers.

 

That varies a lot by region. In NJ, Tacoma seems to be the prevalent midsize. Oddly, the 4R is quite rare here. It's vastly outnumbered by Wranglers.

 

Right. What I said earlier is that the majority of mid-size truck buyers don't care about off-road capability. I wasn't saying whether it was the most popular mid-size truck.

 

Oh, gotcha. I definitely agree with that.

 

https://www.torquenews.com/6626/16-million-mile-toyota-tacoma-where-it-now

https://pressroom.toyota.com/lessons-learned-the-million-mile-tundras-influence-on-the-tundra-of-today/

https://www.wilsonvilletoyota.com/blog/news/we-found-some-of-the-highest-mileage-toyotas/

 

I know that, and I am not arguing that. I am just saying that Pentastar is good, maybe not as good as our 4.0 or Tacoma's 3.5, but it is good. Any motor that makes it to 500k+ is no doubt good. It had its problems in the JK but they have been rectified. You cannot go wrong with today's Pentastar in Jeeps, Rams and Dodges.

 

I wonder how many more high mileage Yotas there would be if they didn’t rust out.

 

You're correct, though it's a slim majority 55% of mid-size truck buyers don't go off-road, 45% do according to Toyota's data.