Why does 4WD feel difficult to turn?

Good point. I’ve been driving a lot of long off road sections this summer. Much gravel, but constantly changing conditions that call for 4wd. While I subscribe to the idea of staying in 4wd when off road, but I think it might be best for me to be more active on the stick and disengage on passable areas during turns, to avoid strain on the axles. It’s easy to forget on long drives!!! Heck, just this weekend, I disengaged 4wd, but left my locker on while driving on blacktop. I dont know if those disengage automatically at high speed, since I didnt notice binding in turns, but Id rather not find out the hard way! Need to stay alert lol.

 

Is it bad to make turns in 4WD when off road? I know it's a definite no on paved roads, but I always assumed if you're on loose dirt/mud/gravel/sand then making turns is ok?

 

It’s ok when terrain allows for turning wheels to roll at same speeds, they were just saying why chance it.

 

No. It’s not bad. The 4WD system in the 4Runner is robust. And while there is no center differential in the transfer case, any stresses in the drive shafts can find their way out to the ground through the open differentials on the axles.

 

I’ll add that at this point I have at least a few thousand miles with my 4wd engaged on off-pavement situations without a problem.

However, it’s good to think about the terrain you are on when turning tightly in off-road situations. For example, if you are on a grippy slab of granite, going uphill, and need to turn tightly, it might be good to consider how that might strain everything. If the rock is very grippy, and you cant envision the tires slipping to release tension, maybe it’s worth disengaging for a moment or changing your line a bit.

 

Let me ask another newbie's question.
During light snow dusting... Is it safe to assume putting the T4R in 4WD... normal road turns, But definitely no sharp 90/180 deg turns.
Climbing an icy/slushy bridge with slight curves during winter.
Okay so long as it doesn't bind?

 

You'll be fine. Really 4wd will only help get you going.

 

Binding won't happen if the surface is slippery. So your examples would be totally appropriate situations to use 4wd…even if you have to turn tightly.
It’s only when the road is dry, a tight turn in 4wd is not a good thing.

Doesnt mean you’ll break a cv necessarily, but like the previuous example, sometimes a tight turn combined with a sharp change in height, (or heavy cargo) can strain things even more.

 

It’s totally okay.

I think over the course of this thread the risk of damage using part-time 4WD may be being conflated with the risk of using the differential lock. The diff lock requires judicious use, for brief periods at low speeds on very uneven ground or when the road surface provides mixed traction. The 4WD system is much less of an issue. As long as the road surface is not dry pavement I wouldn’t worry.

 

Was snowing, icy, deeper slush, and a few areas of black ice conditions here so we were in H4, b/c it was bad and I still have the OEM Dueler H/T street tires. The conditions were bad enough the dog christened the floor passenger weather proof floor mat and seat. Am also coming off a Grand Cherokee that is full time AWD and able to go into 4L and other modes. Let me have it, but is that not okay to have driven about 28 miles in 4 wheel drive high? As soon as we got to clearer roads, I put it back into H2.

 

It’s fine.

 

This is exactly what I have done for the past 50k miles.

 

Are you new to 4WD vehicles?

 

um - no, but the past 22 years i drove an AWD full time 4x4 and it never felt difficult to turn in 4L or 4H (but thx for trying to shame a 4Runner newbie). in fact, i had a truck that i had to hop out to engage 4x4 front and rear. nothing like this impossible to move when steering sharp. even back in the day.

 

It's not a 4Runner thing, you cannot drive a part-time four wheel drive vehicle in 4wd on a paved road

 

unless the road has an inch of snow?

 

AWD is Mercedes, Subaru, Rav4.
4WD is Jeep Wrangler, 4Runner.

You can't use 4WD mode in 4Runner (unless it is Limited) on dry roads. This is because front and rear wheels are locked to spin at the same rate. This helps A LOT while off-roading, but it creates serious problem in a high-traction situation such as pavement. When you turn sharply in 4WD mode on pavement, your front wheels end up slipping, so you seriously compromise your ability to steer in a turn. You are also putting transfer case under lot of load, if you do it often it will break and warranty will be denied due to misuse.

If you tires can slip a bit (snow, gravel, mud, very bald tires) then 4WD use is OK insofar as mechanical operation. Regardless, the car will understeer (want to continue moving forward instead of turning) regardless of the surface when compared to 2WD. So please be very careful with 4WD at speed in any circumstances.

 

That's something understood and what 4WD is for

 

This is why I love the Limited in winter. So much easy to drive.

 

This is why I buy brand new vehicles

 

Lol, right

 

https://aguyagirlandatrail.com/2022/12/07/winter-driving-with-4wd/

 

I made a bit of a mistake myself last week. I got into a parking lot that had about 3" of snow but the road was plowed it was mostly slushy. I backed in and left the 4R, then when I came back to leave, the 2H lost traction so I put it in 4H and pulled out of the parking lot and started a sharp right turn on 4H with both front tires on the pavement and the back tires on the snow... but I caught myself before I made the full turn so I went straight and as soon as I realized it and when the 4R was fully on the pavement I went back to 2H. This was all at literally 1 MPH just pulling slowly out my parking spot and super light on the gas pedal. Did I fuck myself with this one? I took the 4R to another snow covered road to check that the 4H engaged normal and all and seem like it was all good didn't feel anything funny.

 

Here's my favorite video on 4wd windup. I wish I had that Lego vehicle. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EHcrjIlkHk

 

wow buying new vehicles just b/c someone asked about compromised steering "windup" on two short turns 5 seconds long on wet pavement during a snowy day is harsh and condescending. not going to be posting much if this is how information seekers get treated. how on earth would i know whether what i experienced was normal if i didn't ask - truck was purchased with 9k miles and i worried that the windup was an indication that something was already broken. literally going 3 or 4mph and barely 10 feet / half turn before straightening. twice.

 

My introduction to 4WD was many years ago when I went to test drive Jeep. Rookie salesperson didn't know any better. I nearly got into accident pulling out of parking lot on a test drive because the car was in 4WD mode. I had to steer into a skid on a clear day on dry pavement.

A LOT of people don't understand 4WD operation and that makes these cars dangerous. I am not sure why they still allowed to offer these cars without LSD transfer case. If that was any other system, like traction control, that would have been a forced recall.

 

and my Jeep does have a LSD in rear. but i didn't know whether the truck was already broken or if it was normal. it won't happen again. trust that.

 

I figure that's happened to most people here who use 4wd. The first time I felt binding, I had been in 4hi on a long, nasty ranch road on my way to visit a friend. On the way out, I forgot I was still in 4hi as I turned around on the little concrete pad in front of his garage.

 

This is why we can’t have nice things lol. If we don’t understand how to operate the machines we buy, they’re dangerous and they should be recalled as a safety hazard? Why not get a Subaru or something that’s automatic?

I know part-time 4wd systems on jeeps and 4runners are a bit of a throwback, but they have their place on mechanically simple utility vehicles. Yes, the full-time 4wd system is superior in many ways, but it’s also possible to operate those unsafely or incorrectly as well.

I don’t think cars like this will be sold much longer though. The number of people that enjoy or are able to appreciate mechanical things are declining. Also, as time marches, software interface on everything is designed to hide the physical limitations of cars, and many other machines we use day to day. This makes it even harder to understand machines. Even airliners are designed more and more to hide the physical realities of the machine. (for example: 737Max flight-control design). Personally, I think this general trend to make complication appear easy is to our detriment, especially since software design can effectively be used to conceal a badly designed machine (for example: 737Max). But I digress.

I understand that most people just want things to work however it is they assume it should work. The thing is, no machine is naturally intuitive, it’s only our previous experience that makes it seem so. As a machine becomes more complex, we should not assume we can intuitively understand the new complexity.

The reality is, cars are machines, and not all cars are the same. I think it’s reasonable to expect that some effort should be made to understand what it is you’re operating.

Maybe some people will be surprised that they need to learn new things to drive this vehicle to its full potential. That’s fine, but we shouldn’t be looking to ban them. They already have huge warning labels. Although it would be nice if sales staff were required to know something so they could advise their customers.

 

I don’t think the comment about “that’s why I buy new vehicles” was intended as an insult to you. I think it’s just reflecting the reality that it’s possible to misuse or make mistakes on a part time 4wd system that could potentially hide damage.

You are definitely not the first one to be unsure if you’re using the 4wd system correctly! And good on you for wanting to know. Not everyone cares though, which is also why I’d prefer to buy new lol.