What is Toyota 4Runner's competition?

I guess my stance is that it's one of the best platforms available in the US for mixed street and off-road use. The only thing I can think of that has some very real advantages is a Wrangler, and even that has pros and cons. The Bronco could be put on that list as well once they get the bugs worked out.

 

Still body on frame ! Toyota New Global Architecture (TNGA)

Watch the video til the end talks @bout 4Runner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHwM6B-VA0E

 

I don't know what you Googled, but coming from decades in the Jeep world, I've never heard that particular "fact". Death wobble has nothing to do with BOF or unibody. Wrangler owners have been dealing with death wobble since 1997 until today. Lift does factor in, along with other things, all suspension related. Not body construction.

 

This thread is fun. Just say you love the 4Runner and move on. If you’re going to add a bunch of modifiers to rule out any other vehicle as a competitor, well, the same can be said of any vehicle. The 4Runner is what it is, it's a reliable, old school, old tech, SUV. Those that love 'em generally love them for those reasons.

Death wobble is a solid axle vehicle problem, not unibody.

 

The new full size 4 door Bronco with it's IFS, BOF, and Solid Rear Axle = the 4Runner's main competitor.
The 4Runner's proven reliability will always be a selling point though.

Those looking to off road will always compare the Wranger to the 4Runner. Comfort, reliability, quietness, 4Runner wins in my book.
Pure off roading - Wrangler wins but not by much.

I lead trail rides almost weekly with a mixed bag of mostly street legal 4x4 vehicles.



If I wasn't going to park it in my attached garage (Wrangler Engine Fires), didn't have plans for cross country road trips, and didn't mind the "It's a Jeep Thing" wrenching on the side or the road / trail, I'd own a Wrangler.

I like the comfort & reliability of the 4Runner.

Eliminating the Bronco and Wrangler from the competition - would leave BOF midsize 4 door pickups - Nissan Frontier, Toyota Tacoma, Chevy Colorado, and Ford Ranger as the main competition. All are available with lockers from the factory.

 

The old school, old tech, suv is exactly why I want a 22 runner, it’s going to replace the Tacoma because of comfort. And then maybe some day I can get an older taco, for the truck needs.

 

Completely agree! I love my 4Runner and wouldn’t have put money/time into it if I didn’t think so. However, comparing it with a competition is nonsense per say. My points were each person has their own needs/wants and it is highly subjective. Personally I don’t think 4Runner has any competition in its class. I bought it so I can have 300k+ miles with little to no problems. If I wanted a maintenance machine I would have bought a Jeep or a Ford. But someone else may love the Ford or Jeep and so be it. Let’s all just have fun. I am happy to go to my neighbors house to help him fix his Jeep if needed. Because in the end these are all just tools. It has a life expectancy and one day I will get a new car. I hope the future has vehicles that hover with unlimited ground clearance. Might as well just be a flying car. That would be cool stuff. Star Wars style.

 

I should have been careful with my words stupid and dumb. Sorry

 

I guess we'll have to agree do disagree. I'm currently on my 7th Wrangler since around 1995....all have been lifted and I've never had that problem. Everyone I have known with a Cherokee and lifted it has had the issue.

 

If you find the 4Runner comfy, then try the one with KDSS. It feels almost a Rav4 when you turn. I am loving the KDSS on my 4Runner.

 

I've never driven one with it, but I plan on my next one having it. I hope it's all what everyone who has it says it is!

 

A basic suspension lift / upgrade cures the complaints of a non-KDSS 4Runner.
I have Eibach Coils and Shocks which firmed the ride up, eliminated the body roll, and reduced the nosedive on braking.

That being said, I recently blew both of my rear Eibach shocks on a challenging rocky trail. I had my OEM rear shocks installed on a road trip. The OEM rear shocks are horrible, almost as bad as broken rear shocks. My 4Runner is bouncy on bumps on the highway. Eibach has million mile warranty on their suspensions and said they will replace my blown shocks free of charge. Only problem is they out of stock. I think I'll wait for my replacements vs going to another brand.

 

I did not say that every Wrangler has had death wobble issues. Of the 13 Jeep Wranglers I had, only 1 ever had this happen. My point was DW has been happening on Jeeps since coil springs were introduced, and, as @Huzer21 pointed out, DW is a solid axle problem, and has nothing to do with BOF or unibody. It's simply coincidence that those you've known had Jeep Cherokees with unibody that had DW. Unibody construction has nothing to do with DW, it's the solid axle suspension.

 

True. However, the KDSS system does allow more articulation off-road at slower speeds, in addition to the firmer ride on the road.

 

Speaking of the Cherokee, my wheeling buddy Gus (black XJ owner with snorkel and lockers) makes a good point with his following statement. "You can pick up a used 20+ year old XJ Cherokee for the price of a Toyota winch bumper ($1k). Invest $10k into it in performance, suspension, lockers, and have a vehicle that will go anywhere off road."

Yes the XJ is unibody, but take a look around. They are still being beat on off road everywhere.
Pretty sure the BOF vs Unibody complaints come from the Jeep XJ Cherokee. Question is, are those complaints valid for a non-daily driver / off road toy?

We met this guy on one of our trail runs. He had his XJ sideways going through a huge mud hole.

 

Haven't missed not having KDSS off road and I'm off road almost every weekend.

 

This doesn't change the fact that it allows more articulation. Of course, so would a sway bar delete. But, the combination of better handling and better articulation is tough to beat for a daily driven vehicle that sees trail use as well.

Jeep puts sway bar disconnects on their higher end off-road models. Most owners can probably get by without those as well. But, given the choice, I'm sure any off-roader would rather have them.

 

As a biologist with a strong background in evolution, I feel I should point out a few facts:
1. "Raptor" means "Thief". They basically were egg stealers.
2. The largest raptors ("dinosaurs" not birds) were only about 3 feet tall.
3. Raptors were really birds based upon a narrow, forward facing pelvis (ornithischians, which later evolved into the birds.).

 

You're telling me that Jurassic Park wasn't accurate?

 

I don't think there's any reason they can't get another 5 mpg out of it if they wanted to. Some better technology inside and more creature comforts on the inside too for the price of them. They sell so well because it's the only semi off-road capable suv that doesn't look like crap that they offer. Die hard Toyota people will keep buying them. Honestly in the size platform they have on a truck chassis there is zero competition except I suppose you could toss the bronco in there now. At the end of the day there's way more off-road capable vehicles out there but they aren't quite the same as the 4Runner. The Unlimited Wranglers are close but have less cargo capability and don't have the option of the third row. Having the third row option is awesome if you find yourself ever needing it. I think if the Grand Cherokee offered this they'd have dropped the 4runner sales a bit. Of course there's the Grand Cherokee L now but it longer so you might as well call it a fancy durango at this point.

 

Yep!! My wife poked me in the ribs when they said they used frog DNA!(I was laughing!) Frogs are notorious for things like changing sex, having sex determined by temperature, etc. Several reptiles re[produce by cloning (race-runners, some geckos, even some birds!)

 

Aside from the Wrangler and possibly the new Bronco, what are they? I can't really think of anything else that really has it beat. Maybe a Land Rover...

There's the Raptor, but it's such a different vehicle. Which seems to be your point. But, I just don't see there being a lot of vehicles that make a better off-road platform. Maybe a few, just not a lot.

 

Land Rover? Those are so unreliable I would rather have a Jeep . TFL had 3 Land Rovers before they stopped having problems. Then he was like… we have 3000 miles with no problems so far (on their 3rd Land Rover mind you). I was like wow they should get an award to making it to the first oil change. I wouldn’t trust a Land Rover to bring me to the middle of nowhere and get me back home safely.

As far as modern vehicles that can off-road and also serve as daily drivers it is pretty much Jeep XJ, Ford Bronco, and Toyota 4Runner (In no particular order). There are other trucks and such like the Raptor, Tundra, and Tacoma but I a specifically talking about SUV’s not trucks.

 

I've heard bad things about Land Rovers before, but holy cow!

Tacomas are definitely more popular in my area. Our meets and trail runs are usually at least 3-4 Tacomas per 4Runner.

 

I love how he tells me that I'm talking nonsense, then goes on to spout that gibberish.

 

Having owned and driven XJ (cherokee) and WJ (grand cherokee) off road, they are pretty damn capable regardless of the unibody. The XJ was a great little SUV, the WJ GC, well, let's just say Grand Cherokee mechanicals were great, especially the V8, but every other component on the vehicle will break.

 

Land Cruiser Prado to be precise. We drive Land Cruisers!

There is no competition for the 4runner in terms of what we have in the US. The G-wagon, as mentioned, is the closest thing.

With regard to how expensive the 4runner…. My TRD OR cost literally the same as our 2018 xle highlander. Nobody complains at how overpriced highlanders are. Sure gas mileage is crap, but that doesnt make a vehicle any less expensive to manufacture.

 

It's funny, everyone likes to give the Wrangler a bad rap, but, I've had two JK's, one went 150k (round trip to Alaska, Panama, and Nova Scotia) with zero problems, traded it on the second which went 100k before trading on the 4R. Why didn't I get another one? Who knows, what I really wanted was a LandCruiser but couldn't justify the $$$ with my wife! I like the 4R, and I've got a soft spot for every other truck I've owned, especially the CJ2a I first bought in high school.

There's no "right" vehicle. They all have pros and cons. Why argue about it? Why not just love the fact that we have any choice at all. Imagine living in Soviet Russia, zero choice. I had the chance to drive sag wagon for a motorcycle trip across Mongolia, we were using ex-Soviet military 4x4 vans. I swear the little Yamaha 250's were there to support the crappy vans.

Who cares if you're right? It just doesn't matter. Enjoy what you've got. Give other people a friendly wave when they pass in what they've got. You've got more in common than you realize.

 

Awesome!!! Couldn’t have said it better myself.