Toyota Pricing WOW!!

So I asked her If I could get $25k trade in value on my 3rd Gen?

 

Speaking of new car pricing, this is a bit scary....

https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets...-712-month-new-used-car-prices-continue-climb

 

I can't wait for everyone to nope out of the market and everything crashes.

 

Unfortunately, the necessary market correction may come courtesy of a recession.

A lot of really good and affordable cars are being made. There are actually many solid choices in the 20-25K range (eg the AWD Subaru Impreza starts at 20K, the roomy and capable Forester starts at 25K, and the AWD Maverick comes nicely equipped at 25K). There are even real trucks starting around 30K (eg the base F150 and Tacoma). You just can't find any of them on dealer lots!!! That too won't be fixed without a big change in market dynamics. The dealers have us by the b*lls right now. Ugh.

 

Less for more is the new norm with cars, food, energy, and everything its a painful transisition.

 

Same here. I got $1,000 more for my rav on trade-in then I paid for it 3 years earlier. They goosed me $1,400 on some over-priced addons on the 4R. I did very well and I'm driving a vehicle I'm crazy about. Yes, the mpg is atrocious. I don't care.

 

I don't think it's necessarily really that simple. In my case I was never happy with my rav's new 8 speed trans and Toyota couldn't really 100% smooth it out. I hit the market at the perfect time for trade-in vs price. All dollars in, I am positive I actually ended up better than normal times because of what I got for trade-in on a car I owed nothing on. I admit, however, without the money I got for the trade-in I may have just had to live with it. Looking back, I wished I'd bought a 19 4R instead of that rav.

 

I intentionally bought a 5th gen before they are gone, absolutely no consideration of a Subaru or the like. I keep vehicles a long time and after seeing what a neighbor has gone through with his Subaru reinforced my opinion. You can’t pull a head without pulling the engine, cam belt replacement……not for me.

 

Yeah I hated the tech on my Outback Wilderness. Drove great on highway and off road, but the CVT is a fail.

 

CVT is total garbage across the board. Doesn't matter if its Subaru, Nissan, Ford.... none of them are any good. Once the drive band screws up, the damage is much more catastrophic than with gear driven transmissions. The fact they haven't improved them in 10 years and continue to use them(because they are cheaper to produce) is especially worrisome. Of course until you actually need to buy a replacement $$$. It's obviously about the bottom dollar, but I certainly wouldn't own one out of warranty.

 

Agreed re CVT. Glad Subaru offers a manual on the Impreza and Crosstrek. Shame they no longer do on the Forester. We had one of those — good vehicle.

Personally I wouldn’t be dissuaded by engine maintenance issues as those motors do seem to last pretty long. But if someone is afraid of Subarus there are other choices in these price ranges. The Honda Civic SI looks like a hoot to drive, efficient and practical too. Under 30k. And all the Hyundais and Kias come with 10 year 100 k warranties.

Of course, as mentioned, trying to find one on dealer lots is a nightmare.

 

Sure, there are less expensive vehicles if you don't have specific needs. I always get a kick out of the folks who say Tacomas are so much cheaper than a 4Runner when, in fact, it's not really that significant of a difference once you try to compare apples to apples.

And, the newer Civic SI is ugly as fuck. That is, unless you really like Star Wars...




Edit:. I just saw that they redid the Civic SI and it actually looks decent. But, with only 200 HP in this day and age, who cares anymore?

 

I know some KIA owners and the touted warranty doesn’t mean the dealers are eager to back it up. They have told me it is like pulling teeth to get the dealers to act. You get what you pay for. There is a reason Toyotas hold their value.

 

I had a 2016 Subaru Crosstrek for five years / 92,000 miles and I thought it was a good little car. My wife didn't like it and my three boys called it my lesbian car. My mechanic buddy said it was good that I got rid of it before it hit 100,000 miles.

My mechanic buddy owns a auto repair shop and he is having a banner year(s). He said he has never seen people invest so heavily on ten year old cars. Cars that would be traded-in in past are now being repaired with long term repairs costing up to $6,000. He said that never happened in the past.

 

It’s a matter of priorities. I love horsepower but I love handling more. The BRZs and GTIs and similar that have gone through my household were more fun to drive than the high HP cars like my M235. Also, unless you’re tracking it, it’s the sense of speed that matters more than the actual numbers. The BMW would crush the other cars in a race but be half as fun doing it.

And yes, the new Civic is a decent looker. The interior is especially good.

Do I trust that 1.5 turbo for the long haul? Certainly not. Nor was it my point to suggest that there are affordable cars as durable, as reliable and with as much utility as the 4Runner. Of course there aren’t. That’s also true for almost all vehicles that cost the same as the 4R — or more.

My point is just that the manufacturers are in fact making appealing vehicles at affordable price points. No one said a 25k vehicle is as desirable as a 50k vehicle. Just that people can in fact get good transportation— even fun transportation! — on a budget. Look at the BRZ / GR86. Under 30k!

 

"My mechanic buddy owns a auto repair shop and he is having a banner year(s). He said he has never seen people invest so heavily on ten year old cars. Cars that would be traded-in in past are now being repaired with long term repairs costing up to $6,000. He said that never happened in the past."

And the good, independent shops are likely to see more of this type work over the next 2-3 years as inflation remains high. Even after dealer new car inventories start to rebound, the simple cost of a new or 3 year old (or less) used vehicle will likely remain too high for many. Higher interest rates will add to the pain. For many, the major repairs to their older vehicle may be their only alternative. Even at $6,000.00 if their 10 year old car can be made truly road-worthy again, for say another 5 years or so usage, that may seem like a bargain. It's unfortunate that the folks in most need of a new vehicle will simply be priced out of both the new/used markets.
I get the feeling I will soon be re-living the late 70's early 80's all over again. Sad.

 

I agree, to an extent. My MR2 was super fun, despite having only ~110 hp. If I could have the same thing with twice the power, It would have been even more fun. My TC has only 180 HP, and is enjoyable to drive. I think around 300 would be much nicer, though. But, at some point, it can become pointless.

I didn't really know much about the m235, so I looked it up. As far as I can tell it has 301 horsepower, so not what I would consider "high horsepower."

I really like the look of the '86. I would love to have one, maybe with a little boost.

 

I think the M235i was actually 320 horses and 330 pounds of torque, which is dramatically more than the BRZ or GTI. But more to the point it did 0-60 in the 4s and would max at 175mph (not that I approached that). The new version is closer to 400 HP and torque, and it still wouldn’t be half as fun to drive as those other cars.

I’ve ordered both a 2023 BRZ and a 2023 GR86. Taking whichever comes in first. I prefer the looks of the 86 (and maybe its suspension tweaks?) but also love the BRZ and would get that one cheaper. So I’ll be psyched either way.

 

I'd definitely take either one over the BMW. But, these are the specs that come up on a Google search:



So, still 301 HP.

Yes, that is significantly more than the others. But, I still do not consider it high horsepower. Not when a Camry has the same horsepower.

 

BMW are great!!!
My mother-in-law got one. Within a year the entire radio/nav system needed replacing at $2400 bucks.

 

Or reprogrammed. Non of this newer eletronic crap works.

 

Atleast we still have Howitzers. About the only thing you can depend on. And not the new GPS ones those are crap the old-fashioned manual.

 

Oh my, that is not at all the car I’m talking about. That’s BMW’s new front drive abomination that has stolen the old 2 Series name. Here’s the one I’m talking about. A real RWD coupe in the old BMW tradition. Yikes.

BTW it’s beneath you to call me a liar

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15104907/bmw-m235i-2016-10best-cars-feature/

 

Wow where was that made South Carolina?

 

Mine was made in Germany. To order.

I only had it for 40k plus miles, but it had basically zero issues in that time. It was virtually flawless. Wish I could say that about my 4R.

My 4R has failed to start after sitting only a few days, garaged in normal temps. Has failed to restart three times after using the remote start feature from the key fob. And has persistent steering wheel shimmy on anything other than the OEM wheel set. All within the first 14k miles. I still like it more than that BMW, but let’s be real. I can’t fault the quality of that BMW — or the one I had for about 80k miles. That never had any issues at all. None.

 

Oh, yeah. That's a little different than what I was finding on Google. But, I didn't call you a liar.

Also, 320 horsepower is still not what I would consider high horsepower..

 

It’s all relative of course. You can use whatever definition you like. It’s ultimately rather arbitrary. 320 and 330 torque is about a third higher than the GTI and pushing twice as high as the last BRZ. Also twice a Miata. One of my all time favorite drivers was a MGB. That had something like 80 horses.

320 and 330 in a vehicle that weighs 1300 pounds less than my 4R. Not bad imo. But you’re free to set the cutoff wherever you like. With EVs on the horizon “high” HP is gonna be even higher. Much higher.

 

True. I just wonder how the fun factor would compare to something like a Corvette.

Heck, my TC feels fast compared to the 4Runner.

EV's are already crazy fast. But, I'd still rather have an ICE sports car. The sound and the experience of shifting a manual transmission is half of the fun.

 

Hope u don’t bend a rim.

 

Some people are so negative. The rims weren’t that pricey. And they weren’t even that low profile — not compared to some of the ridiculous rubber bands of tire stretched around some wheels these days. Plus I had a set of BBS rims I ran with performance winter tires for the cold months. Nice looking rims and only about $200 each. Mounted and balanced courtesy of Tire Rack. So no, Negative Nancy, bending a rim was never a big concern.