Toyota Pricing WOW!!

I already see merc tinkering with batteries...

 

I have a 1975 Merc 9.9 for trolling starts like a champ and 115 Merc as my main. They are both two strokes. I know in California I could not even use them. I will keep them as long as humanly possible.

 

Even now, before the next generation of batteries, you can buy an EV that can add a couple hundred miles of range in 15-20 minutes. Yes, that requires a high speed charger and there aren’t enough of them to make it as convenient as gasoline. But the technology is proven.

There are also already EVs that will travel about 500 miles on a charge. If you had one of those you’d be charging less often than you’re gassing, which would reduce total time and inconvenience.

And if you have a home with modern electrical service, you could charge when you’re not driving and rarely need to stop at a station at all.

Current EVs do have downsides. In particular they won’t be suited to long road trips until there’s much better charging infrastructure and/or dramatic increases in range (which is entirely feasible). But bottom line is that EVs are already less hassle than gas vehicles in many use cases. And it won’t be that long before they make more sense than gas in almost all use cases.

 

Going to be a long slow process it seems. How long have iphones been in heavy use globally and what's the fastest time that tiny battery currently be charged?

 

Seems like it should be 5 min tops by now

 

On an EV 4runner I would want 10 min charging max for 300 miles range pulling 5k lbs. At least for a $20k markup over gas version anyway. I would settle for longer charging and lower range for a much lower price tag

 

Phone and car kinda an apples to oranges comparison, but my iPhone will get to 50% in 30 min on a standard charger, and I often get 15-18 hours of heavy use before needing to recharge. So very rarely do I need to plug it in before bed.

Just like very rarely would most people need to charge their EV before they go to bed.

Lemme ask you: How much time do you spend on oil changes? Even doing it yourself is a bit of time suck. At a shop you're adding travel and waiting time etc etc.

How much time do you spend checking the oil and doing other maintenance items that will never be needed on an EV?

How much time do you spend driving to a gas station with a decent price, and wouldn't you save a lot of time if you could refuel at home when you're not using the car anyway?

I'm not saying that today's EVs consume less time overall than gas (though that would certainly be true if you could meet most of your charging needs at home).

But I am pointing out that EV critics conveniently overlook all the ways in which EV is less trouble than gas. Sure, it's different. A lot of people don't like different. But it would be nice if people could be a bit more objective about it all.

 

Agreed. But I voted EV cause if Toyota could deliver a 4R that beats (or even matches) the specs of the F150 Lightning I'd buy it in a heartbeat. I'd buy the Lightning in a heartbeat if it came in SUV form and Ford would allow more than fleet customers to buy the base model with the bigger battery. I'd prob buy it even with the smaller battery. The base model is a hell of a deal -- actually cheaper than the comparably equipped ICE version.

 

This will change the market for some time of who can buy a car. How long will these batteries last?

I have seen some day four years. So if a consumer buys a $80k new electric and then the battery needs replacing in four years they may sell. People get ticked at $70 for oil change and tire rotation.

So imagine a dealer saying hey we need $3-$5k for a new battery. I think a lot of people will say heck with that and sell. Then if a used car buyer comes along and that car is worth say maybe $50k and you have to put 3-5 into for a new battery well that takes a lot of people out.

Obviously my dollar amounts are subjective estimates.

But I think the number of people that can buy the used electrics will be much less vs ICE. This could change the whole dynamic of the country in my opinion. We may have lot less people driving cars that we need to be able to drive. Just something to consider.


It’s going to take a while a long while for those electric car prices to come down.

 

There are already a lot of affordable EVs. The average price of a new car today is about $48K. Look at how many EVs there are below that.

 

"To provide some assurance over car battery lifespan and concern with replacement cost, the federal government mandates that manufacturers offer a minimum of an 8-year/100,000-mile warranty on batteries. Some manufacturers offer even more protection, such as the lifetime battery warranty on the Hyundai Kona EV."

"An electric vehicle’s battery pack degrades slightly each charge and discharge cycle, but it’s a very slow process. For example, battery packs in a Tesla Model S have been shown to only lose around 5% of their original capacity throughout the first 50,000 miles.

After that, the depletion rate slows down even more.

There is some disagreement between how long EV battery packs last. But when cared for properly:

• Consumer Reports estimates the average EV battery pack’s lifespan to be at around 200,000 miles.
• Conservative estimates put their longevity closer to 100,000 miles or between 10-20 years depending how often you drive.

However, there’s often a disconnect between estimated EV battery ranges and what consumers think is actually true.

A recent survey by Cox Automotive showed that potential EV car buyers believe the average battery life of electric vehicles will reach 100,000 miles, while 46% believe it’ll only last 65,000 miles or less."

 

We'll also be looking at right to maintenance and repair issues like they're going through with Deere john right now. Locked out by the computer paying bookoo dollars for every little thing that needs to be touched on it

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/new-senate-bill-farm-equipment-right-to-repair-rcna13961

 

Based on testing (in controlled environments of course) Tesla estimates it’s batteries will last for 1500 charge cycles. With a 250 mile range that’s 375,000 miles. Battery performance will degrade over that time so a more practical estimate would be 100-150K miles.

On its later models Tesla claims that the Model S and Model X retain 90% capacity even after 200,000 miles. Third-party research data support this claim, with 150,000-mile models at 90% and 200,000-mile cars still maintaining over 80% capacity.

So if you’re driving 15K miles per year that’s 10 years before battery replacement.

But when the time comes to replace the whole battery pack with a new one it will cost between $15-25K depending on the model.

 

Will be interesting to see how the next gen batteries perform. Solid state seems next. More range, faster charging, less weight, not flammable, etc. That might be when I make the jump. Biggest impediment to me is actually the move to internet connected computers that control your brakes, steering, door locks etc. To me that's madness -- and a problem that is neither inherent to nor exclusive to EVs.

Alas, it's likely that this will become unavoidable in anything but specialty vehicles -- regardless of whether EV or ICE. This was a big reason I bought the 4R before it was too late. And a big reason I'm getting a manual trans BRZ or GR86. That might be the very last affordable new sports car (or any car?) that doesn't come with computerized safety nannies. Unfortunately, other manufacturers like Honda have now figured out how to incorporate those nannies with manual transmissions. I'm grateful that hasn't happened yet on the BRZ/GR86. "Get em while you can!"

So I'm holding out hope for good compact EV crate systems that can be retrofit into ICE vehicles like the 4R. They already exist of course, but range is usually too low with the current tech.

 

I did not hear about the government mandate of 8 years so maybe I am wrong.

I will let the others put up there cash first and see where things land 10-15 years from now.

If those estimates for a new battery correct now wow that’s unreal. It’s a disposable car at that point in my mind like everything else we buy now.

 

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If you amortize it over 10 years, and consider less dealer ICE-related costs for maintenance of fluids, plugs, oils, time in the shop, etc, maybe it’s a wash. But who knows, new improvements in battery tech vs inflation vs new fees…?

 

But it’s a subaru! The head gaskets replacement service interval on those sucks.

 

True points. Plus who knows how much electricity will increase. As those close coal plants etal and we have more demand the price has to go up. How much who knows. They will get us one way or another

 

The poll needs a fourth option.

I'm broke. Bring the Suzuki Jimny to the USA.

 

I agree.

As much as an EV wouldn't suit my overall lifestyle, it would be super convenient for day to day running around and short trips. I've said all along that I think EV's are a great option for the right person. Eventually, I could definitely see myself with one as a second vehicle.

 

Lol I did not know that Guess I'll have to live with the trade off. Have actually had 6 Subarus. Impreza, Outback, BRZ, Forester, WRX -- all new -- and briefly a used Legacy that had about 150K on it and ran like a top. (Plus as a teen I learned to drive manual on one). But because of my bad habit of flipping cars, I guess none of the new ones ever got to the point of needing any significant work while still in my ownership. Well, the 2015 Forester consumed oil like crazy from day one, but that was completely fixed with a new short block under the terms of a class action settlement. That was a great car actually. Manual trans too. I kinda miss that one...

 

Somebody better email Tim Cook and tell him the iPhones that allow wireless charging are causing global warming. I’m surprised their engineering department didn’t know that.

 

That’s what I said...but nobody ever listens...

 

They know. They only care about $$ over there.

I listen.

 

Floating Hood design on my Highlander...

Man I hope this sort of stuff don't show up on 6th gen gas electric or hydrogen

 

And yes it's closed...dammit

 

Yuck! That does look like shit.

 

That’s not a hood. It’s not even technically a lid. An engine ‘cover’ is more like it. Or a topper. And the open seam is direct into the windstream??? Yuk.

 

That's the side corner there face is more flush with massive chunks of weather stripping all the way around to make up for it but I still get a lot of sand in the engine bay especially at the back by the hinges and it actually already has weathering on the engine vanity cover

Don't get me started on the cardboard carpeted skid plates on that thing

Wife had to have it cause it rode smooth as Tennessee whiskey

 

What started out as a Thread on new Toyota pricing seems to have also included the future prospects of the EV's. Very interesting reading guys.

The owner of the Company I recently retired from bought a new Tesla about 3 years ago. At that time, he considered the vehicle as more of a novelty. He now says for daily commutes to the office and chores running around town it is the best for that application. No gas, oil changes, etc.
But he also owns an F150 ICE 4X4 to trailer his boat to the lake and for longer trips. He feels it's the best of both worlds.

About 3-4 years ago, I was at a local sports bar having dinner. A guy sitting next to me about my age (late 60's then) was from Poland. But he had been a U.S. citizen for the last 15 years. We struck up a conversation about vehicles, large and small, ICE and EV, a little of everything. I was curious what he thought about driving in the USA versus Europe. I was jokingly asking him if he would drive one of those tiny Smart for Two's on the Interstate Highways at 70+ MPR on a daily basis. He said no way. LOL. He then asked me how far I drove to and from work each day. And I said 46 miles round trip, not including running errands. He said that distance was unheard of in much of Europe. People tend to live close to where they work. So small vehicles tend to be more useful. Plus the cost of fuel - and there's often no where to park larger vehicles. (notice how narrow Italian cars are). He said the USA is too spread out for longer trips in small cars. He drove a Tacoma and loved it. Said when he goes to trade, it will be for another Tacoma. I was driving an FJ at the time.