To Hybrid or Not Hybrid

When it switches to a higher gear, RPM shouldn't drop?

 

Yes, I own a stick. The post was worded in an odd way but I was really just being sarcastic about the idea that flooring the gas and downshifting would result in a drop of rpms, because obviously when you kick down into a lower gear your rpm's go up.

 

Of course it does, but that's not what your initial post said.

 

Really. If I did, then I didn't mean it

 

By gear change, I meant changing to a higher gear. Should be clear now

 

lol this thread has shifted gears

 

Never felt the gear change in our Rav4Prime. Just the torque when I get on the accelerator.

Toyota know what it’s doing with hybrid, and if shit hits the fan, I can get further away as it’s range is almost 200 more miles than the runner.

 

Meanwhile 2060 is just around the corner..

Boomers gonna boomer

 

When I floor the gas pedal on my 4Runner on the highway, all I hear is the engine roar- there is no real change in speed. Too bad it also sounds coarse.

 

Costco is having a sale on tinfoil. Maybe stock up for your next few hats?

 

Haha, I had the same thought earlier while reading this thread.

Downshift equals more noise, upshift equals less noise.

 

Believe what you want. I'm sure that the US Gov would never lie to its citizens.

How are things going in Detroit? Really safe place to visit, NOT!!! Don't worry, I will never set foot in that cess pool.

You might want to get right with your maker, because HE is coming back soon. FACT!!!

 

AND On that bombshell. . . Take care and thanks for watching. . . Good Night !!

 

Things are great here, thanks! Just went to see the Detroit Symphony Orchestra (the 4th oldest symphony in the U.S.) the other night and it was fantastic. Everyone was polite and courteous, and it was extremely safe.

Unfortunately, my maker (my mother) passed away a while back, so I can't meet her any more.

Enjoy the tinfoil, though.

D.

 

My rechargeable batteries reminded me last week that I should not buy EV / Hybrids as long as I can. I think these batteries are just 3 years old and do not hold charge. So I just bought bulk 100 regular AA batteries.

 

2 Corinthians 4:4

I will pray that your mind is opened.

 

Hell, I can't afford not to buy rechargeable batteries. They are a lot better than they used to be (eneloop).

I was thrilled not to be throwing away batteries every few months when I first got then.

Some of y'all are deliberately deep in the dark on here...

 

Not to mention there's a world of difference between the life and duty cycle of a likely not top-end-quality off-the-shelf rechargeable AA (of currently unknown chemistry and no management, likely sits for months on end) and the cells, thermal and battery management systems in an EV pack. (not to mention the life-extending buffers built-in that AA's and devices that use them just won't have)

The worst case scenario these days is older Nissan Leaf's with both older chemistries and without the now-common liquid/active thermal management systems. As much as I'd like to dunk on Tesla, battery longevity is not one of my reasons.

https://insideevs.com/news/429818/tesla-model-s-x-battery-capacity-degradation/

TL;DR: Battery capacity is typically >85% after 150-200k miles. Of course we've already touched on age being a factor earlier in this thread, but the Model S has been around for around a decade (eight years as of article's writing) and seemingly not outright junk yet.

Of course, we will continue to see how these models age but I would not mind putting money on the typical new Model _'s powertrain up against a new Hyundai, Kia or Nissan gas vehicle's powertrain in terms of lifespan without repair. (of course maintenance will vary, powertrains vary, I'd say it's got a good shot too versus the gear+CVT Toyota has in some gas-only vehicles.)

Maybe not something a 4Runner owner would be excited for, but just like in the world of gas engines, there are good and... less good implementations out there.

 

Do you think the 6th gen hybrid will have the big step in the cargo floor like the Sequoia?

 

My realistic guess is it's going to be something like the incoming Land Cruiser with the battery stuck on top, and raising the cargo area floor like the current gen's third-row but I'm really hoping it's better packaged than that.

 

If my Duracell rechargeable go bad that quick I can't imagine how bad off brand rechargeable would be. Maybe useless in few months?

 

Whoops you caught me missing those distinctive L’s in-frame and assuming!

It may vary from battery chemistry to chemistry but generally sitting at maximum or minimum charge is unhealthy for batteries so that may be part of it since I definitely forget about those batteries until the time comes to use them.

It’s not going to turn into any “gotcha!” but I’m curious what kind of chemistry those are. A side note but it’s interesting seeing Toyota pick different chemistries for different hybrid applications. Some RAV4 Hybrids have Lithium Ion packs, some have NiMH - the new Land Cruiser too, etc.

Had some NiMH rechargeable AA’s for the ol Gameboy many years ago and they seemed alright. But the NiCad cells in these Motorola walkie-talkies didn’t seem to stick around as long.

 

Perhaps not offering a hybrid version of the 6th gen 4R will be the way Toyota keeps it apart price-wise from the new LC?

 

Both my Duracells and Energizer rechargeables are NiMH. I can still use them on light duty devices but not for devices like my camera flashes.

If I can remember correctly the reason Toyota using NiMH in AWD Hybrids are for durability in colder climates. The FWD hybrids seems to use Li-ION.

I think almost all newer phones and tablets use Li-ION right? I have bunch of iPhones, iPads, Android phones at my work that no more hold charge. Just ordered few devices because of that. Too bad none of the iPads are cellular models to have GPS chip, else could have use on my 4R for offline maps. Have huge iPad Pro to iPad mini.

BTW, some of the device battery was swelled and disposed before it possibly catch fire. These devices have easy life always at the desk and never dropped.

(Forgot to add the pic)

 

Hybrids work for a long time on degraded batteries; it's not like an electric car where you start seeing massively reduced range.

The batteries are mich smaller in comparison, and the charge will float from 50-100% many times over the course of a drive.

Even in single digit temps last year, there were no operational effects (although the engine runs more than necessary if you have the heat on, since my car still uses engine heat for climate control).

 

KBB 5yr old Model 3 vs. Toyota Camry trade in value and operation comparison…..

2018 base Tesla Model 3, 50K miles, MSRP $36,200 very good condition, KBB trade in value $16,829.

2018 base Toyota Camry, 50K miles MSRP $24,095 very good condition, KBB trade in value $9,941.


Many Home Insurance companies are asking if a EV is being stored/charged in the garage and may require an inspection of the condition of the house wiring.

The claim of less maintenance/repair cost for EVs has been proven invalid.


It cost $19,371 to drive the 2018 Model 3 for 5yrs = $3,974/yr

It cost $14,154 to drive the 2018 Camry for 5yrs = $2,831/yr


The older these two examples get, the better the Camry’s value becomes.


It cost $1,143 more in resale value per year to drive a Model 3 not counting the higher insurance premiums or electricity consumption and charger installation.


Let’s say of that $1,143/yr you saved with the Camry you use $900 to buy gas(@$3/gal) and the remaining $243 for oil changes and such.


A base 2018 4cylinder Camry gets EPA 34mpg average but let’s just call it 30mpg for simplicity of math sake.


$900 divided by $3/gallon = 300 gallons = 9,000 miles/yr.

(The actual 34mpg = 10,200 miles/yr.)


This comparison doesn’t factor in the cost of electricity and purchase of the charger/installation to charge the EV.

The benefit of the shear convenience of gas availability and refill time also has to be considered which many do like myself.

 

Neat! I was thinking of snagging some but realized I barely use AA/AAA’s these days.

Anyways, I agree GPS would be a great addition to non-cellular iPads, especially with more offline maps being available. I remember the days when only HERE had it (free) and it was a selling point back when Windows Phone was around but I digress.

Anyways, I believe there’s different chemistries even under the Li-ion name and I think you’ll be surprised how much extra effort goes into vehicle batteries.

An example I’d like to hold up is the Chevy Volt - those batteries are holding up quite well and have a large buffer built in both to mask and reduce degradation.

I wouldn’t mind one but my hesitations would stem from being an orphaned GM powertrain rather than the battery itself.

Same way I keep my laptop between 25-80% charge since it lives its life plugged in - can’t say the same for my work laptop going into 2020 a couple jobs ago, sitting parked at 100% all the time for a year certainly took a bite out of its capacity - small electronics aren’t engineered to last as long and have much tighter space, budget constraints I bet.

Of course, engineering varies. Hybrid batteries are expected to sustain countless charge/discharge switches, PHEVs are expected to charge and discharge fully (not counting the longevity buffer built in) and the engineers are smart. But of course not immune to MBAs nor mistakes.

I’d hesitate to buy a new Leaf or Outlander PHEV judging from historical performance/choices the companies made but I think so far those are the floor and not the worst lived modern automotive powertrain either. (cries in Hyundai/Kia)

 

Believe me in 2018 no one was paying sticker for a base Camry. They were selling around my area for 20-22k all day long.

Now Tesla, I am sure the buyers all paid sticker, maybe more, back then.

 

I just wanted to stick with documented/published #s for apples to apples.
One thing the Model 3 has is much better acceleration, but at a price and charging hassle.
What I want to see is after 15yrs what the documented value of a Model 3 falls to if it is on its original battery.
One thing for sure is there is very little if any money to be saved in the long run as it stands right now.

 

A snippet of things about Teslas that made me not wanting one at all after driving my parents' model Y, some are EV problems, some are Tesla problems:

-electronic door latches and locks. No Thank you.
-terrible shifting interface. Why is everyone so intent on reinventing the shifting paradigm? It ain't cute, just annoying at best, dangerous if I may be honest
-windows lowers itself every time you open it because they are too cheap to put in a top frame for the door? F that.
-ride like crap, makes the 4Rs feel like Town Cars

One pedal driving is fun though.