The Future of the SUV

I can't argue with that. I loved the 5MG and 6MG I had in my '85 Supra. Probably a similar experience to yours. It wasn't actually fast, but sounded beautiful and was a joy to drive!

But, I would have traded either motor in for a 1JZ in a heartbeat, given the choice. 2J swaps are senseless to me unless you're going for 1000+ HP. Check out some 1JZ sounds on Youtube if you're ever bored. I think they sound great!

 

I hope that I’m not the only one who thinks that ToMoCo should bring back the old version TLC.
My ‘73 FJ-40 had no A/C, P/S or electric windows. No traction control, sway bars or nanny buttons.
You had to actually drive it into a tough spot and drive out of it.
WTF were they thinking when they made the ugly afterbirth known as the FJ Cruiser.
If Toyota built a two door, short wheel base, utility vehicle, with a waiver that says that
I am responsible for myself, I’m signing up.

 

Market research is what they were thinking.

Like I mentioned before, people say they want something and actually want something else. They can't help but sabotage themselves and others because few people take the time to find out what they really want. It's a hard conversation which exposes your flaws. People want rainbows and sunshine so they lie to themselves.

That love child was the FJ.

 

I do agree that the general public wouldn't need, or really want a clumsy SUV with 2 solid axles. But, at the same time, a good portion of the 4runner's buyers would be better off in a Highlander. That doesn't stop Toyota from making them. And, it doesn't keep people from buying them.

Think about the Wrangler market. It's probably a small percentage of off-road enthusiasts and mostly people who just want a Wrangler because they look cool.

With the Highlander and the 4runner being basically the same size, Toyota could leave the Highlander for the soccer mom crowd and make the next gen 4runner into something more closely related to it's heritage. Of course, it's not likely to happen because Toyota doesn't like taking risks.

 

Agree 100%.

The fact that Toyota is willing to put out sports cars that aren't really Toyota's proves that they will never make what any Toyota enthusiasts really want.

IMO they should be ashamed of themselves.

 

I'm glad that I'm not the only person who feels this way. I've said that it was an insult to the previous Supras and the enthusiast community. Some have come back with some BS about it being a global market and how every manufacturer shares parts. I said it was lazy and half-assed. They're cashing in on the name without putting in any effort.

This is probably more personal for me because it has been my dream car since before most people even knew anything about them.

 

I agree, but that's kinda my point. The average soccer mom should buy a Highlander rather than a 4Runner, research suggests they would too.

But they don't, cause they envision picking their kids up from soccer and going on an epic offroad adventure.

Spoiler: They never do.

 

Thanks for the link.

I always enjoy Bowman (see signature).

 

This article reminded me of something I heard on the TFL channel. Just watch that portion I linked because it touches on something that is becoming painfully true. Where are the affordable and capable 4x4 vehicles? My dad had so many cheap 4wd vehicles he could buy new available, the Suzuki samarai was cheap, you could buy a new jeep at the time with the fewest options and it would still match the most expensive decked out model. The jeep XJ, the dodge raider, ford bronco, Nissan patrol, and Daihatsu taft were all 4wd vehicles but they were still affordable yet capable.

I recently bought my first car, and it had to be older than me because there were no vehicles in my price range. Like what the fuck? Did manufactures just give me and every other person who wants an entry option the finger and focus ALL attention on cars costing $31,000+. I just want a bare bones stock 4x4 that is just as capable off road as a version with all the boxes ticked. I have little hope that the new base ford bronco will even get close to its actual MSRP. Also Toyota will absolutely lose touch with the next land cruiser (at least in the US market), they already did when they demanded $80,000 for one.

 

Things are way too luxury these days. Even my 2020 5th gen SR5 is more luxury than I need. People love to hate on the Jeep Liberty, but I would have been happy to pay less for my SR5 if it had as much hard plastic surface as my old Liberty did. One of the criticisms of the 4R is that it still has a plasticy interior, but my doors and center console arm rest are pretty darn soft to me. My old Liberty wasn't like that.

I also would have been happy to pay less for hand crank windows. I had a Wrangler years ago (before it got wrecked), and I loved the hand crank windows. The signature 4R back window has to be power, though.

Look at the Kia Stinger these days. It's one of the most interesting vehicles on sale in the US today. IMO, its main downfall is that Kia didn't lean into the Kianess of themselves. They went faux-luxury with it. So much expensive styling and more expensive than it needed to be materials. They could have reduced the price by so much if they used cheaper materials, or they could have kept the price the same and put the budget into making the stuff that makes the car perform more durable. I heard that it's actually deceptively expensive to insure in part due to the "luxury" stuff. I would have definitely rolled the dice on the Stinger if they made it perform as it currently does but made it look inside and out like my dad's old Chevette. That's what I wanted.

 

I'd buy the Heritage Edition LC in blizzard pearl white......if I had the money

 

Me too. And a Porsche Taycan. And a mint condition pre-turbo Porsche Cayman with a manual.

I need at least three cars....

 

True! But, that's my point as well. People will buy vehicles they don't need just because they like the way they look. That's why you see so many Wranglers on the road that will never see a trail. People just buy them because they're cool looking

That's the market Toyota could aim for with the 4runner as well. They might even steal some sales from Wrangler if they would make something that's actually in the same class as far as off-road capability. We already have a better drivetrain.

They could make something similar to an FJ80 Landcruiser. Look how many soccer moms drove those around! And, the off-road enthusiasts would be lining up around the block if something with Jeep capability and Toyota reliability came along.

 

I remember early in the JK series of wrangler jeep tried making a 2wd version under the correct assumption that most people were buying them because they just liked the look of them. They later discontinued them because it wasn't very popular and it was weird to have a purpose built off road vehicle in 2wd. People also like the feel of having something capable even if they wont use it. Its the same reason people buy dive watches that can go 300 meters under water even though they will never go deeper than the depth of the local swimming pool. People love excess even if they don't need it.

It inevitable that all off road vehicles become more luxurious because they want to cater to people who can pay more to get a rugged vehicle, eventually it just becomes just another SUV that is owned by people who have no idea what the vehicle they are driving once stood for.

A good test to understand when this change occurs is when they start offering a four door option (or in some cases when they stop offering a 2 door option). The jeep Cherokee, ford bronco, jeep wrangler, Toyota tacoma, Nissan patrol, Nissan pathfinder, Toyota Landcruiser (usa model), and yes.. even the 4runner can all have this test applied.

Not saying that the 4runner has lost its way but I am saying that Toyota is more focused on appeasing the family/on road driver than the off road driver. The designers of the wrangler believe it will spend more time on road being used as a daily driver because they bothered upgrading to coil suspension.

 

I totally agree with this, and the rest of your post.

My point is that Wranglers ride like garbage (based on everything I've heard) and people buy the shit out of them anyway. I believe Toyota could build a more off-road worthy 4runner and still sell plenty because people who are enthusiasts will be all over a solid front axle Toyota that could really hang with Jeep. And, people who are not enthusiasts probably wouldn't notice the difference.

If they went that route, which I'm sure they won't, I would probably trade in my '19 as soon as it was financially possible. I would bet that many on this forum would as well. Hell, we already have guys throwing down deposits on the new Bronco.

 

My family owned a JK as well. It road rough despite its increased focus on road comfort. Reliability is always a question with jeep, ours threw the p06dd code before resolving itself mysteriously multiple times and we never found out why. Toyota tried with the fj cruiser to dethrone the jeep wrangler but they missed the point and ended up leaving out many important features that the jeep had like removable doors and roof.

I wonder how well the new ford bronco will hold value compared to the jeep. I don't see Toyota doing something like ford did with the bronco. If they did it would be amazing but Toyota is either too stupid or too cautious to make a vehicle like that. Which is a shame because reliability is something everyone admits jeep lacks, and I doubt ford will do much better, a toyota offering would instantly have a leg up because of that.