Swaybar Disconnect for non KDSS

Just one inch more and it would have done it.

https://youtu.be/nAcZjXjYHrs?feature=shared

 

Also interested, but yeah, I’d rather see how they hold up after a lot of use and after a couple of winters. This looks like some thought went into these (reflected in the price!), but previous attempts at disconnects seemed to be prone to breakage, which would let the end of the sway bar fall onto the CV boot and tear everything up.

Basically, I’d like to see someone break these in use to get an idea of what the collateral damage would be.

 

I've been watching these for about a month now. And I did see the first install videos that included some welding, and how they waited to launch the product, likely in order to simplify install and to address the slight frame differences between the FJ Cruiser and the T4R. I'm very excited to see something like this come to market finally, even if I don't take the plunge, yet.

 

Ordered yesterday, got the shipment notification today, says it should arrive on Monday.

 

It has arrived. 5 day turnaround. Nothing I saw in the video seems scary, just meticulous and time consuming. I will not be able to get to this very soon. Hopefully on the 20th but maybe not until the 4th. I could spread the work out over evenings but I don't really like stopping and starting. Might be a good reason to take a work day off...hmmm..

I need to make a phone call to them too, to discuss the existing 3" lift. The lift came with a sway bar relocation kit but I never put it on, just left the sway bar off. I assume I will need to use the relocation brackets from that kit, but I'd like confirmation before I do this on a Saturday, when they're not available. Next step is to confirm the UCA ball joint is compatible. Ran across a beta tester video talking about that.

The printed installation instructions in the box are incomplete. Reference to the YT video is necessary during the install. Not my favorite but I suppose it's the way of things now. They make it very clear they expect a professional level install. There isn't anything overly technical to do, but the drilling needs to be spot on, especially the pin on the arm into the bar. Having experience allows for more precision in that but also to identify when something might not be going right. I suspect some of the warnings comes from needing to appease the Toyota engineers...maybe...we'll see.

The only tool I don't have...a bike shock pump. Not sure I know anyone who has one.

First thing you see after opening the box, which is also on the product page:

 

Awesome. I can't wait till you get them installed and try them out!

 

That's too purdy to put in the dirt. Congrats.

 

Welp...I'm considering returning it, unused and uninstalled.

Went on a mountain drive this weekend and did not miss the sway bar. It certainly didn't corner great, but I'm not sure it was bad enough to justify the $750 + the install.

Back on the fence, I suppose.

 

That's interesting. When I go long travel I was considering ditching the front sway bar. Maybe go stiffer rear sway bar similar to Tinkerer's Adventure's FJ...

I drive pretty aggressively so I'm really on the fence about it as well.

 

Are you on stock spring rate? Do a slalom maneuver at say 25 mph and see how it feels. Usually the second swerve is when the body roll can get severe. Search YouTube for the Hilux moose test video for an idea of the setup.

I'm on 700lb springs on my Tacoma.

 

Tinkerer's Adventures testing found that the best articulation was with front sway disconnected and rear bar connected. Apparently the rear bar forces the front to articulate more.

Another channel, DBC, tested different rear sway bar link lengths on their lifted 5th gen and found that extended made no difference compared to stock on an RTI ramp.

 

Keep the thing man. Put it on

 

I’ve been contemplating the Apex design, until I saw the little blurb about the factory electronic disconnect system…looking forward to some trail reports on this and hopefully this may be another option for retrofitting onto a gen 5.

Toyota Electronic Sway Bar Disconnect

 

I have KDSS. With KDSS, we have similar front articulation to a sway bar delete already, but reduced rear articulation compared to non-KDSS models.

If the sway bars are independent of each other, I could delete the rear, and have the same articulation as no sway bars at low speed, but still keep the front sway bar for road driving.

 

I highly doubt that there would be an easy retrofit from 6th gen to 5th gen for this

 

Agree, it’s a totally different sway bar setup to begin with. It runs behind the rear engine-cradle crossmember.

 

Just lose the sway bar and save your money. With beefier coil springs and good suspension, you barely notice the sway bar is gone. You won’t roll the vehicle as long as you aren’t driving like an asshole.

I’ve never kept the swaybars on any of my yotas and never had an issue.

 

Your 22 has no swaybars? Any pics of the flex?

 

No sway bars at all. I removed the front and rear when I got it home from the dealership and tossed them. I have a pic from the rear of but nothing from the front really. However, the rig tends to be less tippy without the swaybars when articulating in off camber situations. I spent a lot of time trying different configurations when I had the white 4R and contrary to what Tinkerer says in his video, I prefer no swaybars. Keeping the rear sway bar just kept causing me to lift a wheel in some situations. I’d rather keep 4 on the ground as much as possible.

Here you can see the front right tire stuffed to full bump and the right rear droop (not full). With sway bars, there would be induced roll due to restricted wheel travel, but without the front and rear sway bars, the articulation allows the rig to stay relatively level.

Here’s is video of my 17 4R with no sway bars doing Hells Revenge. You can see the front articulating pretty well and not lifting a tire where most everyone else does.
https://youtu.be/fFYdYVT2W_0?si=BPGWDAS_DlcbdY7Z

 

I was never convinced his testing on that was very accurate. He drove the opposing wheels up ramps, which doesn't really bring any roll into the equation. It just didn't look quite right.

I think I'm convinced to return the disconnects. It's not necessarily the cost but the effort to put them in. I have the stiffer front and rear Ironman springs and the performance on the mountain roads the other day was not a problem.

 

Yeah, the RTI ramps don’t do much for replicating real world stuff. While Tinkerer makes good points, I’m with you on it.

There so many people on the forums and Fb groups that will shit all over the second you mention removing the sway bar, but I’m here to tell you it’s fine. I’ve been running without sway bars for well over a decade and have never had any issues.

 

Well, Dang it. (literally) I understand your reasoning for returning the product, but I was hoping to have someone to watch and find out if the disconnect worked.
Keep us posted if you find you like the ride without the swaybar(s).

 

Dangit it is right! I've been running without the sway bar since I put the lift in, about 2 months now...? I really cannot tell it's gone. I didn't drive it a lot with it on, but I know what roll feels like and there is none. The only odd time I did feel it was when I made a left turn and the road grade sloped down to the right. It was just an odd intersection and I bet any car would feel more roll than normal.

Consider this though...I do not run windy mountain roads fast anymore. Too many "oh shit" moments in my past. You young'uns might have a different experience.

 

You know what, that's good points about Kai's testing. Real world IS more applicable than driveway ramp testing.

I've also had the same thought about most aftermarket lift springs being stiffer, and probably compensating for a lack of a front bar. I used to have a Grand Cherokee ZJ, and I ran that without front or rear bars with a 3-in lift. Not going to lie, it had a ton of body roll, but it rode nice and had a crazy amount of flex.

 

We know the Apex disconnect works, because it's a refinement of the "sliding link" concept that's been used for years. Video of a Hilux flexing in a cemetery 10 years ago:

 

True, but don't forget Kai is a true blue wheeler in every sense who applies his theory's offroad in a variety of vehicles. His driveway tests are just to illustrate his findings in a controlled environment like any good experiment would.

 

Shit I have been waiting for something like this! Thank you! That price is tough though but I need them lol

 

What is your honest opinion of its manners on the road? Do you DD the 4R?

 

Daily driving for me is far different than most folks. My vehicles spend a lot of time sitting in my garage or in my company’s hangar at the airport.

I rotate between my F150 and the 4R. It handles fine on the highway and in town when I take it places and I prefer driving it around town over the F150 simply because it fits in parking lots.

I’m not on stock suspension or stock rate coils, so my handling is far better than stock rate stuff without swaybars. In fact, there isn’t a single stock suspension component left on my 4R. Shocks, struts, UCA’s, LCA’s, rear links and panhard were all replaced with better stuff.

 

Just be our guinea pig, we will arrange a GoFundMe for you. You got my $10