So who on here is reporting their steering wheel shake to the NHSTA?

OP, did you say what wheels you are running? Stock or AFM? If not stock do you have the hub centric adapter things? Just wondering if not a true balance problem but more of a wheel problem.

 

Its interesting my 2013 steering wheel feels "loose" compared to my friends 2022 TRD Pro. Is this a consequence of me getting a lift or A/T tires?

Also noticed the brake responsiveness of his truck is immediate as where mine are spongy (Olathe Toyota said that was by design and nothing was wrong.... but thats off-topic)

Im not getting any wobble, but I am curious if that steering looseness is a symptom of age, modifications, tires or this wobble issue.

 

Totally stock - same wheels that came with my ORP.

 

Loose can be due to age, and basically every component that could be a source of wear could be suspect.

Once had a Jeep CJ-5 where it wandered when the steering wheel was straight, and stayed straight when you kept moving the wheel.

 

Apart from brand-new rentals, every Wrangler I've ever driven had at least 30 degrees of free play in the steering wheel. They had probably all been abused, but come on! Driving them required constant corrections on a second-by-second basis. It's one of the reasons I wouldn't consider one as an daily driver.

 

My 23 with 350 miles has a little shimmy in the steering wheel at 60-70mph and I have the dumb-flop tires. Guessing they just need balancing.

 

Interesting. The driving experience from his TRD pro to my heavy 2013 was drastic. I wonder what components (or if even the spacers are responsible) can be replaced to aleve the wandering.

EDIT: Im in too deep on my 2013 to sell it lol

 

Things like bushings, joints, tie rods, etc.

 

Are you feeling looseness or lightness?

I have experienced large differences in steering effort based on vehicle weight distribution. The heavier the rear end gets with cargo, the lighter the steering gets.

The amount of caster will also play a big role in how light it feels, and how much the steering wants to naturally return to center. I have a lift with stock UCA, and my caster is less than spec. On 265/70s, it felt quite spritely on the interstate. I wasn’t sawing at the wheel like Roscoe P. Coltrane, but just very responsive and needed more continual corrections compared to stock caster angles. Somebody else with aftermarket UCAs with tons of caster will have much different steering feel (judging from the noticeable difference I felt with less than a degree of caster angle reduction).

If I had to guess, I think 4runner steering geometry (low stability angles resulting in low-effort and “quick” steering), and its underly robust steering components go hand in hand. Is it a low-stability design to allow for lighter steering components? Not sure how purposeful that aspect of the design is.

But I think once you add the soft LCA bushings that allow for cloud-like comfort (and all the movement that comes with that), you get a system that can easily fall into a resonance/feedback situation. Just like sportbikes with quick steering that get a bit of headnod or tankslap under certain dynamic conditions.

 

Less responsive / Looseness. My ride is a 2013 SR5 with an Ironman 2" lift. The UCA's were replaced. My friends was a stock 2022 TRD Pro

 

So like old-school jeeps where movement of the steering wheel doesn’t turn the actual wheels? If so, you might be able to trace down which component has the slop. Edit: by having someone move the steering wheel while you take a look underneath at the components mentioned before.

 

Wrong alignment specs. I believe each suspension is a little different and have different specs. I have seen Trail, SR5 but had to call for others and they were different. They had a high tech machine and it didn't have specs for each model. So if you're not paying attention, your alignment guy may be using what he has. My guy called someone to specs for Limited which were completely different than the others.

 

You are exactly right. It's about how much pride a person takes in doing a quality job. I have had to break a tire down, turn it 45°for times and balance 4 different times to get road force in spec. No reason a weight should come off. Some people are stupid to. Hard to get anyone to work if there's not an app. I learned to do a good job because I have had the bad taste of a poor job before and I don't like wasting time or money.

 

sorry I missed your post. I do use 265/70/R17 Falken Wildpeaks with 1.25 inch spacers on the hub

 

Did your friends 4runner have spacers? I’d have to imagine that could cause a different steering feel than stock. Also, if you kept your stock UCAs after your lift, then it probably left youo with a very low caster angle. That low caster angle is why I think my steering felt quicker/twitchier after lift and alignment, which had the effect of making it wander on the road more. If you can’t live with it, I’d try getting aftermarket UCAs to dial in more caster (might cause rubbing with spacers, though). If you already have increased caster, you could try removing the spacers to see if that helps.

 

Honestly I have been able to dispute and correct every “steering wheel shake” on a Toyota product presented to me. There is no need for lawsuits, recalls, or TSB’s to correct the design or engineering of 5gen 4R’s. Incorrect wheel balancing procedures, bad tires, improperly mounted tires, improperly mounted wheels, wheel spacers, and incorrect hub to wheel mounts, bad wheel bearings, bad needle bearings, improper caster, and on and on I could go. Believe me if Toyota had the problem so many want to say they have, they would have fixed it before “quick” could get ready. These trucks exhibit the same characteristics of every OEM, when issues such as I have listed above are present. Like it or not, it is an ownership issue /or unqualified persons wrenching on them. Come back at me all, you all care too. I deal with the truths and facts of the order of harmonics on a daily basis. Vibrations have a cause and it’s not in the design of your 4R. If it were in the design every one of them would do it, and they simply do not. Balance and impedance, Balance and Impedance.

 

Except it seems like these issues seem to be way more prevalent here than with other cars when you control for the age of the vehicle.

Not saying you're wrong, but when you have Toyota service departments saying, "Uh, it's supposed to be like that I think" there's a bit of an issue in the manufacturer - dealer - customer feedback loop.

Certain design choices take vibration out of the equation, or inject into the equation in a way that gets up in your face.

Great example are the Harley Sportsters.

I had the last of the solid-mount motors. The motor was a stressed member, and EVERYTHING shook. The rear view mirrors were so bad that I didn't notice a cop following me for miles until he turned on his party lights. The year after mine, the motor had rubber mounts, and the bike was a lot smoother while the engine looking like it was bouncing in the frame.

From one year to the next, the engine is vibrating the same amount, but design choice ends up playing a massive role in what happens with the energy generated by the vibration.

I will say one thing I've noticed is the vibration isn't consistent. Sometimes it will show up at a speed where it wasn't a few seconds ago. For example, light vibration get to a speed, slow down, then accelerate and suddenly the vibration is stronger for a given speed than it just was.

If I had 80k miles, it'd be one thing. I have less than 5k.

At any rate, I'll be getting an alignment done soon enough, and have a shop other than the one that sold me my tires check the balance. Tires are going to be rotated at the first service in about a week, but I'll probably get my alignment done elsewhere where I can get the alignment warrantied.

 

Be careful this winter, those Dunlops are rated POOR for winter driving by TireRack and in my experience they'll scare the crap out of you on slick surfaces. Good luck usng your brakes going downhill on ice.

 

This is a good point, I plan on having the bushings on the LCA's replaced with polyurethane bushings. If those correct the issue ill advise, otherwise the spacers are coming off.

 

What dealership are you working with? No self respecting service department would ever tell a customer that it's supposed to wobble. That's ridiculous.

 

Oh, I’m just paraphrasing the other posts I’ve seen.

I haven’t even mentioned the issue to my dealership yet because if I’m coming out of pocket to resolve, which I probably would be, everywhere would be cheaper - even other dealerships.

 

When they balance your tires, ask them for the run-out numbers.

If you get one above 20, it's probably the culprit causing your wobble.

 

I had a 1998 GM 1T with a leaking master cylinder, the Service Writer said it was NORMAL SEEPAGE…..

 

Geez! That just seems ridiculous to me.

 

I immediately told him brakes shouldn’t have normal seepage and walked off to the service manager’s office and got it straightened out.

 

Imagine having a proctologist say that seepage was normal.

Seepage is never normal.

 

Had steering shakes with multiple sets of BFG KO2's - several balance attempts.

Upgraded to Toyos and haven't had the issue in 2000+ miles of driving. Zero shaking, knock on wood.

In my experience, it's entirely a tire balancing issue.

 

Which Toyos? I have a set of AT3's that I use for Fall/Winter/Spring and I'm pretty darn happy with them!

 

Went with the RT Trail - very happy with them.

 

I'm hearing good things. I currently run the Toyo AT3's for winter duty, and Yokohama MTs for summer/trail use. I've been debating going to a hybrid tire like that for the summer so they're not so miserable on the highway. The Yokohama's are very good for an MT, but still loud AF compared to the AT's.