So I finally drove a Tesla...

Great post LandCruiser! There's a cool story that back when the patent office was created, they only set it up for a few years because by then everything would be invented and they wouldn't need it anymore. Technology waits for no man. Think how far we've come since the wheel and the club. Is it progress?

 

Dang it - you made me back page to check it out!

 

Kind of off-topic at this point, but I told my wife about this as I was reading it, and she told me there's a house near me, built in 1898, with a garage that was intended for storing and charging the electric car.

 

Akio Toyoda said he was never impressed with electric vehicles until now. That could be interpreted to mean he didn't see the market until Tesla built it, but BEVs prior to Tesla were pretty boring. It will be interesting to see how Toyota's market share evolves as they build out their hybrid and electric fleet. The Tundra hybrid will have better power and torque than the V8, will that draw in more people or will most of the market continue to look for V8 engines?

Hybrids and electrics will be popular with the vast majority of car buyers. The question for me is whether the truck buyers will be willing to accept hybrid and electric trucks that will have better power and torque? From what I understand the Tundra hybrid is going to have some sort of enhancement to make it sound "throaty" like a V8.

Will a vehicle that sounds like a V8 but has more power be popular with old school Toyota truck owners? I have no idea.

 

Electric cars are the future.

Electric cars have been around for over 100 years.

Nothing like having a completely computerized car whose range, driving patterns, and destinations can be controlled remotely.

 

Probably within 5 years most of the cars will be electric or at least hybrids

 

By government mandate of the EU and CA.

Why not let the market decide.

 

Exactly.

 

The market demand is there, and has been for some time, for EVs even without any mandates. Electric vehicle sales have been increasing every year since Teslas were introduced:
Gas Cars Are Declining Significantly & Full Electrics Rising In USA
https://cleantechnica.com/2021/08/2...g-significantly-full-electrics-rising-in-usa/

 

Regulars on the forum know this makes me crazy. The sheeple are much too willing to give up control of their vehicles to hackers / corporations / governments. Our ability to travel freely within the continental US is one of our great freedoms, and the automobile gives us remarkable power to exercise that freedom. Why would we willingly risk that freedom by buying automobiles that can be remote controlled by others?

That said, it's vital to point out that this problem is neither unique or inherent to EVs. There is absolutely no technical reason an EV has to have this vulnerability. There's absolutely no reason that ICE engines, transmissions and fuel systems can't be replaced by electric motors and battery packs, with the necessary computerized controls NOT connected to the internet and thus NOT vulnerable to remote control.

So the problem is not the electric method of propulsion. The problem is the way manufacturers are implementing it. And this problem has well extended to ICE vehicles. Most modern gasoline cars have this very same problem now.

Agreed that major changes to economic systems tend to work best when market forces are allowed to shape the outcome. If something doesn't make good market sense, it often doesn't make good public policy sense. But free market absolutisms is also a failed concept. Without adequate regulations and government incentives and disincentives, you end up with monopolies (no consumer choice), massive pollution, and all kinds of abuses of average people, both as workers and consumers. It's a fantasy to think otherwise.

Fortunately, in the case of EVs the market will ultimately decide. The inherent advantages of electric propulsion are going to sway more and more consumers. The ability to fuel up at home -- can't do that with a gas car. The ability to power your whole house with your car, e.g. the F150 Lightning -- can't do that with a gas car. The ability to put down gobs of torque instantly, giving massive acceleration at all kinds of speeds -- hard to match that in anything but expensive and exotic gas cars (we already have reasonably priced EVs running 0-60 in the 3s). The ability to forgo most routine maintenance such as oil changes -- can't do that in a gas car. Etc etc etc etc.

Obviously, EVs have downsides too, but those are being addressed. We already have EVs with proven real-world ranges of 500 miles and charging times to 80% in less than 20 minutes. The tech for even more range and faster charging times is on the horizon, eg solid state batteries. It's happening. Whether some people like it or not. It's happening, and it's going to come with a lot of consumer benefits and thus a lot of consumer demand and thus, yes, the free market at work.

 

It sounds like Toyota is investing in a bunch of different areas. This doesn’t suggest they think governments will control the outcome, it suggests they know the market is very much not settled and as a result they will spend more in a bunch of areas to be prepared to move once the market is settled.

 

The only reason we're still dependent on oil for energy is because our government is run by corporations. We have a few big oil companies that dictate our energy policy.

 

I don't disagree with you but you see the CAFE regs just forces the auto industry s hands

 

Plus probably 90 + % of vehicle owners don't care much about how there car operates its just a device to get them around

 

That's just it. People want the government out of it, but we can't do that until we stop subsidizing gas and oil prices.

 

Like x10…The whole thing! Especially re freedom to travel. I dont think anywhere else on earth can compare to the amount of free roamscape we have here. Australia, yeah, but we have things in between coasts lol.

I despise the idea of anyone having outside control of my vehicle. Ultimately, our freedom to walk isnt hampered, but when people spend so much for cars, they should be free from hacking/remote control risks.

 

I grew up in a communist country, I don’t like being controlled. I don’t like that America now reminds me of Poland in the 1980s.

I DON’T like the idea of cars that can’t be tracked, hacked, or monitored.

 

No argument with the above sentiments - none whatsoever, but I personally know a local community of Asians that have zero issues with the freedoms they are now enjoying here in America. And should someone bring the issue up, they, the ones I’m speaking of, dedicate themselves 7 days a week to the businesses they established years ago with monies they brought from their homeland.

I agree technology is becoming invasive and needs to be brought under control - on the flip side, when GM came out with Onstar many moons ago, I thought that was the coolest thing since sliced bread..

 

Unfortunately, technology in cars and every other aspect of our internet connected lives will only increase. All vehicles, not only EVs, will be more network connected as new models roll out.

 

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I agree technology is becoming invasive and needs to be brought under control - on the flip side, when GM came out with Onstar many moons ago, I thought that was the coolest thing since sliced bread..[/QUOTE]

Think about how many people thought this way about social media and the internet, now look at us.

 

Social media is a cancer.

All of my daughter’s friends are addicted to Instagram and TikTok to the detriment of their own mental health.

 

When I was a kid the biggest time waster of that generation was the pinball machine. Although we spent a lot of quarters, at least we got a little hand and wrist exercise. And The Who had a topic for some great music.

 

When we were kids, Tipper Gore said listening to heavy-metal would turn us into psychopaths.

 

It is destroying, and I mean DESTROYING our future. I work in a high school, and kids are not learning what the teachers are teaching, they are on their phones. I highly encourage everyone to see what kinds of rules your local schools have around phones, kids do not need to have them on them during the school day. Parents, stop giving you kids a reason to not pay attention in school. Parents are texting their kids all the damn time during school, it's gross.

 

My older daughter needs social media accounts for work, so she had to get a bunch of them.

She never posts anything beyond the occasional picture of food, or her with her girlfriends, or what her job’s PR department tells her to put up.

 

Oh yeah… during the phony puritanical conservative Reagan years. Those hearings caused major heartburn for the music industry and us consumers for years. As is said: elections have consequences.
Here’s a good summary of it. I remember Zappa’s great speech.
https://www.businessinsider.in/politics/world/news/35-years-ago-the-senate-held-hearings-on-rock-lyrics-it-was-a-first-amendment-showdown-for-the-ages-/articleshow/78207350.cms

 

Did he happen to mention anything about Tesla?

 

If used right, social media is great for business, the problem is, for it to be beneficial for businesses requires the media to have users, and here we are.

speaking of social media, I suggest the social dilemma on netflix.

 

Im not going to pretend I dont benefit from the business side of social media (indirectly), but that really is a huuuuge, yuge, part of the problem. Business has never been able to say “enough is enough” on their own. Left to the will of CEOs and shareholder profit at any expense, businesses have to, and will do ANYTHING to chase maximum profit for shareholders. Like, legally, I think they are required to!

These social media companies have been able to use the political drumbeat of “interfering with business is bad business” to basically do basically foist all sorts of cancerous algorithms on everybody. I wholeheartedly agree that kids are extremely vulnerable (and are increasingly becoming emotionally destroyed because of them), but these things affect adults in a very similar manner.

So much of what happens and society has allowed with the various forms of social media nowadays, would have been considered child abuse or neglect just 10-15 years ago.