RIP 4Runner

Four-cylinder turbo? nope....done w/ Toyota

 

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Turbocharged engines are fun on the track, where you get more power out of smaller (and lighter) engine. The downside of this setup is significantly reduced reliability. This is because turbocharged engines are more complex, run hotter, put more stress on the engine block due to higher compression, and have unique modes of complete failure that are not present in the naturally aspirated engines.

For the first owner, whom is unlikely to own the car in the old age/high miles this is not a big deal. For the last owner, it is undeniably unwanted complication.

My prediction: In 15 years my 2024 4Runner will be worth more than 2025 4Runner.

 

You are adding a turbo, wastegate its associated clumbing and intercooler. Not really all that complex and its tech thats been revined for over 100 years.

I would argue that VVTi, Honda iVTEC and BMW VANOS/Valvetronic are all much more complicated systems with a lot more parts too them and none have a reputation for problems.

Yes turbos get extremely hot. Its a turbine being driven by 1000 degree exhaust gas. Its supposed to get hot. If you think that's scary dont ever look up the temperature inside the combustion chamber of a jet engine while you are flying to vacation.

Modern turbos are made out of materials that can withstand these temps and so long as the cooling system is properly designed can handle it. The bad reputation comes from 80s turbos that didn't benefit from all the advances in materials and computer controls since then. Ive posted this before but I will again suggest reading this very informative article from the Dec 2022 R&T: https://issuu.com/thomasswift/docs/road_track_-_december_2022/s/17287818

Ive never heard of a production car turbo engine cracking a cylinder liner due to compression. Not to say it hasn't happened... If you have references please share, I'd be interested to read.

Can you elaborate?

 

This issue is lubrication and thermal degradation of oil. I did not see details of the new turbocharged engine design, but I anticipate that it uses engine oil instead of using its own separate oil in a closed system. Both have downsides, shared design degrades your engine oil and separate lubrication system is additional, often neglected, maintenance item. Both are unwanted (to me) complications.

Ford Focus RS comes to mind.

7 Ways to Kill a Turbo — And How to Avoid Them

My specific concerns are potentially catastrophic effects of bad gas by causing preignition and thermal events due to lean-out as the result of clogged injectors. In a naturally aspirated engine these common failures would be an inconvenience, in a turbocharged car these have a good chance to grenade your engine. Especially when the car is driven with a flashing check engine light, as mechanically-challenged people in our lives tend to do.

TL;DR I had many turbo cars, some that I even liked, but they universally have more ways to fail and are more expensive to fix. While I can understand benefits of a turbo in a performance car, in a gasoline truck it is an unwanted and unwarranted complication. All that potential hassle for slightly better gas mileage is just poor trade off. I would rather pay more for gas.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX6gUJrlyW4

 

Agreed. More complex systems will be more prone to failure. Full stop.

Here's a brief anecdote. I had 2008 Subaru STi Hatchback. For those unfamiliar with the platform it used DOHC Turbocharged 2.5L horizontally apposed "boxer" engine. Full time AWD system with front and rear LSD's. Electronically controlled center diff. Thing was an absolute hoot to drive. But holy cow they all start getting picky after a while. After 60k miles it started having vacuum issues, boost leaks, rich codes, lean codes. The thing leaned out one day and cracked a ring land. I didn't know until a couple weeks later. Burnt through 3 quarts of oil in two weeks and spun a rod bearing.

I replaced the engine with a new factory block and crank. Upgraded to forged pistons, rods and ARP head studs. Rebuilt the heads. When I put it back together I upgraded the fuel system to prevent any fueling issues and familiarized myself with Subaru's open source tuning software. Thing was making about 350 lb-ft of torque at the wheels on the dyno. Kept it for another couple years in that configuration before selling it for something else. It was more reliable after allll that work than it ever was in stock configuration. Took a ton of work to get there and I really did not want to do it again. Got really tired of working in the garage and not driving.

It was a ton of fun.... But also a lot of maintenance and wrenching.
It was certainly one of the motivating factors for me buying the 4Runner. Tried and true old tech. Less moving parts means less opportunity for issues.

I'm sure Toyota did their homework and 95% of these powertrains will survive their warranty period without issue. But I'm afraid that these legendary "million mile" engines are a thing of the past.

 

Dumb thread

 

And yet here you are in the 13th page posting in the thread

 

With a naturally aspirated engine you'd just be down on power. People just don't understand how 'balanced on the edge of doom' turbo engines are. Then some people end up tuning them for more power, because it is next owner's problem. All while doing 10K oil change intervals.

Another, similar example - LSPI.

How low-speed pre-ignition can damage your direct-injection turbo engine

 

You reading the reports of all the turbo engines in the tundra blowing up?

 

Why not?

Yeah, you're right... there certainly haven't been any reliable turbo motors.

yup

The engines are blowing up?

Can you provide a single link to any situation where the engine had blown up?



Edit: If the engines really are failing, I take this back. I was only aware of the wastegate issue.

 

Do semis make you nervous, then?

 

It would certainly be stressful, with that underpowered engine constantly being pushed to the brink of failure by the turbo.

 

Those guys must get annoyed with those unreliable turbo motors constantly failing.

 

No reason to concede. You have good points. I'm just not worried about the turbo 2.4.. yet.

I personally don't see anything wrong with using a turbo to make extra power when needed, especially if the engine is designed for boost.

When you really think about the parts that see the most stress, an I4 could potentially be stronger than a V6. Just like the best turbo diesels are generally I6's, until you get into really big stuff.

 

Why not give them a show?

I'm just here for entertainment, and to hear different opinions.

 

GoMiami

Not so fast. Hang in there...

Almost all Semis worldwide are turbo-diesels. Diesels! That’s a big difference. You might want to fill up your tank watching this video to understand why Turbos and Diesels work so well together.

In fact, they work so well together that in almost every geography on this planet (except N America) the new Landcruiser 250, for example, is being sold with a 2.8l Turbo-Diesel and not a 4 banger gasoline turbo engine. Because Toyota knows better and you guys who have doubts about the gas turbo power plant have the same doubts Toyota has. If it is go great, why won’t Toyota sell the 4 cylinder ANYWHERE? LoL. This is a very enlightened thread. Keep questioning…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqMyg_jJc1k

 

Oh, boy, we've awakened chatgpt

You'd also have to be basing all of your opinions on the interests of your campaign contributors rather than facts for that to be true.

 

I'm not really sure how to take that, especially since I was technically a "Teamster" briefly in the late '90's when I was loading airplane bellies and aircraft containers for UPS.

 

Probably under an airport runway somewhere.

 

Everybody knows that he is buried in the endzone of MetLife Stadium where the Giants play...

 

Both sides have been valid
Any of ya‘ll ever debated too much and got banned

 

Semis are diesel, diesel motors are way more robust, they are built differently. These cheap 4 bangers in regular cars are not bulit at that level. Come on dude, what is so hard for you to understand?

 

For Cummins it is normal to last at least 600k miles, HARD HARD miles. For gas motors that is a huge thing. Diesels are just built different, they can deal with turbochargers. If you build a turbo gas at that level of quality, they won't be cheap anymore.

 

This motor was specifically designed for turbo charging. They didn't just slap a turbo on some economy car 4 cylinder.

Come on, dude, why is that so hard for you to understand?

 

Drivers idle the crap out of the Semis, like all night every night. And they are too busy for oil changes, it will be a lucky Semi to have an oil change every 20,000 miles. Yet those things run for a million miles or two. You cannot give the example of Semi trucks here, and of HD diesel trucks for that matter. Those are entirely different animals.
Maybe Toyota turbos are better, I will give you that. But they are no diesel. They won't make any profit if they build them like diesel.

 

Price of a Cummins in the Peterbilt. These things are next level, overbuilt stuff. None of car companies will build a super solid turbo 4 banger, they have to make a profit after all. Durability is not the most important criteria anymore. They want to reduce weight with plastic and all the other nonsense and all that hurts longevity