Release delayed lol

That's only a part of it. There is zero chance it will be allowed to be sold under federal FMVSS, CAFE, and emissions regulations, and you would not believe how expensive crash testing is, meaning low volume specialty vehicles that are not 300k+ exotics are exceedingly difficult to sell here.

 

Yes, I would. But, you're right.

 

My Acuras with SH-AWD were far superior in moderate snow and ice to any Subaru we’ve ever owned. Subaru’s symmetrical AWD system is average at best and the drivetrains are fragile. We had 2 major motor repairs on our Subies and that was enough for me. I’d never buy one again, and when the snow got deep the Subaru would be parked for a few days at a time anyway. Our 4R (even our SR5-P) and Tundras walk right through the deep snow without any drama. My old Wranglers (and my last Rubicon) were great too. The FT 4WD system in the Limited is the best I’ve experienced. I’ve been in bumper deep snow, heavy mud, icy hilly roads, and everything in between. I see a ton of 4R every day, it’s like they’re purpose built for my climate and topography.

 

Yep, I'm doing a quick scroll down the website and I'm blown away that things like a collapsible steering column, standard A/C and an engine immobilizer are headlining features in a brand-new vehicle in a "first-world country" that starts at $75,600 AUD or ~$51k+ USD.

(but there might be differences between the countries in what that sticker price includes)

At that price, the usual buyer is going to compare that with an upper-trim 2024 4Runner or add a few grand and get a '24 TRD Pro or a base Land Cruiser 1958. (assuming minimal deviation from MSRP)

Solid front axle fans already have the Wrangler and a selection of HD pickups too. Toyota already swapped out the tougher HiLux for a bit more comfy Tacoma for US/Canada 30 years ago.

Although, we can't take an immobilizer for granted anymore thanks to Hyundai and Kia.

 

Really? A solid rear axle doesn’t give the 4runner significant advantages for off road use? What about the advantages of a factory mechanical locker?

If these things do provide significant advantages off road, then subaru’s and 4runners cannot be just like each other compared to off road vehicles.

Like you mentioned, the Jeep’s front and rear solid axles give it a significant advantage over the 4runner in many off road situations, which is why a 4runner is not the same as a Jeep off road.

Maybe the point of your post is that most people don’t need what they think they need. Which is true. But that’s a separate topic.

Speaking of which, I just realized the topic of Subarus vs 4runners is off topic as well. Sorry for the thread derailment lol.

 

The Super Handling All Wheel Drive has mechanical limited slips, if I remember correctly (I know ours wanted a special liquid gold Honda fluid), so it makes sense it would be better than the brake-powered systems.

 

Looks like they sell around 80K a year. That seems pretty good. Toyota sells only around 12K Sequoias a year and they keep producing them.

 

Gladiator sales (are crashing) by year:

2021 - 89,712
2022 - 77,855 (15% decrease from previous year)
2023 - 55,187 (41% decrease from previous year; 63% decrease from 2021)
2024 - 23,480 (YTD, but less than half of previous year)

Visual:


None of that really matters though, because the 70-series is diesel and there is a very limited market for mid-size diesel trucks (Jeep stopped offering the diesel as an option due to limited sales). Also, there are a number of states requiring electric vehicles, and not only will the Toyota 70-series not meet US standards, it is not be offered as an EV and therefore not available in many states. People want optioned-out luxury in their rugged 4x4, and the big selling point of the 70-series is it comes with A/C, woohoo!!!

 

You may not have read my post, but it was based on a quote (of your post) where just a few words were changed, in order to be facetious.

The similarities/dissimilarities of a Subaru and a 4Runner are as valid as those of a 4Runner and a Jeep, especially dependent on the more specific comparisons being made.

 

Yeah, I caught the facetious angle, but I wasn’t sure if it was meant to discredit the idea that there are real off-road differences between a subbie and a 4runner. Perhaps it went over my head and I misunderstood your post?

 

I was really comparing a 4R and JLR; the differences between a 4R and Scooby-doo are essentially the equivalent of the differences between a 4R and JLR.

It, my/this post, is really unimportant.

 

Not sure if it’s really crashing when we have record high inflation and high interest rate loans. Keep has sold over 300K of them in a few years. That’s nothing to joke about. That 70 series could be brought here with a gas engine in it and it would sell just fine. I bet they would sell more than the new landcruiser.

 

70 series in the US is a pipe dream of course, since it doesn't meet current crash safety regulations (neither do 80-series or 4th gen 4Runners for that matter). There's a reason today's SUVs have thick pillars and poor visibility.

 

If a brick like Wrangler can meet the crash regulations so can the 70 series. Jeep even meets the regulations with a winch from factory. Toyota just doesn't have the will.

 

Think of a typical Corvette buyer - this performance car will sit in the garage and will be driven at road speeds only on nice sunny days. So the fact that C8 Corvette is better track car than Toyota Supra has very little impact on sales.

It is just like that with 4Runner.

 

The Wrangler was fundamentally redesigned from TJ to JK in 2007 (a bit like the jump from 3rd gen to 4th gen 4R) and again from JK to JL in 2018. It's more like if Toyota modified the 70 series to comply with modern-day US regulations, it would have no resemblance to the 70 series you want...

 

I would absolutely love one of those. But now that the 5th gen is no more, I reflect on where my 4runner has gone and the things it has done, and think to myself that this thing is just as badass, in a slightly different and more comfortable way.

I think Toyota geeks get lost in the beauty of 70 series, that they tend to undersell the capability of the 5th gen 4runner/Prado platform relative to the old-school land cruiser. I’m lucky to have one, and hope mine carries me through to the 7th gen lol.

The world is a better place that a capable corvette exists lol.

I become a little sad realizing a great manufacturer like toyota seems to have adjusted the design and capability of the 6th gen 4runner to more closely match how 99 percent of buyers actually use it. It’s a sad trend with other manufacturers as well.

If a buyer buys a 4runner because of its reputation for durability, reliability, and capability, then that’s what toyota should set out to design. It’s absolutely nobody’s business whether or not the buyer will ever use it off road. To second guess the buyer is Toyota losing the plot.

If Ferrari ever starts designing cars for how they are used by 99 percent of their buyers, they would essentially end up making the equivalent of a Fiero. That’s a sad sad place, it’s not where we want to go.

 

If I could afford to own and store two 5th gen’s I would. Could not care less for the 6th.

 

It is not the shape and dimensions of the 70 series that make it the 70 series. A few changes are fine.
Nobody can argue that the JL is not as Jeep as the TJ.

 

The Supra sold poorly enough to be discontinued in the next year or two, so...

 

Are you equating a 4Runner to a Ferrari? Ferrari is not a mass market, high volume brand. The equivalent mass market vehicle from that company is the Grand Cherokee, which has certainly been tamed down for the general public compared to the first model in 1993, nowadays with independent rear suspension and other on-road refinements.

 

I’m not feeling a lot of confidence in this statement. Source?

 

^https://www.hagerty.com/media/news/report-toyota-supra-and-bmw-z4-will-go-away-in-2026/

Production reported to end in March 2026. It's unclear whether there will be a 2026 model year for the Z4/Supra.

The Supra has not sold more than 7000 units a year since 1990: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Supra#Sales That's like a week's production of RAV4s.

 

Drove by my local lot.

They have one 5th gen left, a 2wd SR5 in white. They asking 46.5k.

 

Lol…no. My point was that it’s sad when automakers make cars based on how they think customers will use them, not what the customers want, or what the manufacturers are know for.

Case in point, Mercedes capitalizing on their names, but building cars explicitly to last the term of a lease.

 

Nice.

 

Bruh 4r when stock, has the front skid plate at only 8.5” off the ground…

 

Sometimes I get curious about what drives people's choices. One of my neighbors has driven a pristine tricked-out Wrangler for at least 12 years. About four months ago he brought home a '24, which he outfitted in a very similar way. About one month ago he traded it in on a '24 Compass. I wonder why.

Another trend lately is the number of soft-top Broncos popping up in the neighborhood. A soft top isn't very practical where it snows 2-3 times a week for 5+ months of the year. Can they swap out the cover with topper?

 

I've seen very few new Supras the last couple years.

Makes sense because sales numbers are awful.

 

Car enthusiasts, that are target audience of Supra, know all too well that it is a BMW, so if you are willing to accept all the downsides of that why not buy it from BMW directly?

At that MSRP it should have been a Ferrari collaboration.