Release delayed lol

I'm talking this generation lol, a Subaru won't out-wheel it:

 

In an open diff, one wheel off the ground situation. Yes Subaru will be superior.

 

That looks like the new Jeep Wrangler, but with a horizontal grill!

 

Subarus have an open center diff, so no.

 

The old ones (this century still) had a torsen diff, same as the Landcruiser every one jerks it too.

The new ones use an electronic traction control system like Toyotas, so better than a regular open diff.

 

Brakes as traction control! Bruh what do you think atrac is?

 

Land Cruiser could always lock its center diff. Hell even a Rav4 and Hyundai Santa Fe can lock their center diffs, but Subaru doesn't offer it.

A-Trac works on 4Runners because of the electric brake booster. Until this year, Subarus had basic vacuum boosters which couldn't clamp the brakes effectively when you give it gas (no manifold vacuum). 2022 model for example (timestamp 13:18):

https://youtu.be/0IywBOmxpk0?t=798

The current generation introduced in 2024 finally got electric boosters, so they perform better.

 

The "center diff" in pretty much any current crossover is almost certain to be a computer-controlled clutch pack of some kind. (heck, 4A and increasingly 4H on domestic trucks is usually a clutch to the front) The RAV4's is electromagnetic, the HyunKia systems are electrohydraulic for example - not sure of the last actual center differential in an economy crossover was - maybe the manual first-gen RAV4?

The question is how much control the user is given and Subaru abstracts it away from the user with a couple of X-Mode settings. I'm betting that the RAV4, Sorento, Outback, etc. have comparable locking/limited-slip capability when the computer deems it.

Of course, what leads to it varies.

Same way Honda's VTM4 system is IMO top-tier for all-weather performance but they axed the lock button in favor of drive modes with the 2016+ crop of Pilot/Ridgeline/Passport. Now if you want the closest to a 4WD, rear axle lock you gotta select Sand Mode.

(I sure enjoyed my Sorento's "simulate 4H under ~25 mph" button - shame the fluid can't be changed in the coupler among other things.)

I always thought the superior brake LSD function in the 4Runner and Xterra was having heavier duty components, maybe that's not all to it.

 

Where's my WWII, all-mechanical, GPW?

 

If Subaru made a Forester with bigger tires and higher ground clearance it would be amazing off-road. Beefed up driveline components would help too.

 

Like the Forester "Wilderness", with additional ground clearance, re-mapped Dual X-Mode, and enough roof rail support to carry a roof top tent, and $10k less expensive.

 

Why care so much about “big” tires?

 

To gain ground clearance bruh.

 

Bruh they already come stock with 9.5” ground clearance

 

2024 Suburu Forester Wilderness

$34,920 MSRP
28/25 MPG

Features

• Raised suspension with 9.2 inches of ground clearance
• 17-inch matte black-finish alloy wheels and Yokohama GEOLANDAR® all-terrain tires
• Dual-function X-MODE® with Hill Descent Control
• StarTex® water-repellent upholstery
• 180-Degree Front-View Monitor
• Anodized Copper-finish interior and exterior accents

 

Which isn’t much since the bottom of the vehicle is pretty much flat unlike the 4Runner or Tacoma where the differential is the low point but everything else is much higher.

 

Front cross member/ skid plate is lower (at least on 4R), and neither one is the stated 9.5". If I get bored at work later I'll pull some measurements.

Point is, as far as typical off-road capability, our cars are only slightly better than the Subarus. To me, the only real gain from the bof / rwd platform is the durability.

 

Most people only take 4r down fire roads. An awd Prius would be fine

 

Hopefully they're rethinking the whole turbo thing.

 

That is the least likely outcome.

If anything is changing design-wise, they would be making small changes to correct the issues found late in the Tacoma. Ideally (for Toyota), those would be minor component tweaks upstream of the 4Runner manufacturing process.

 

As promised, here is the gound clearance report, as measured on my stock 2020 ORP in my garage:
Lowest point under the vehicle: front skid plate at 8.5"

Lowest point on LCAs: nearly 9" (8-7/8" maybe, didn't want to really crawl under there)

Lowest point between the axles: those two bars connected to the transmission cross member at 9.5"
(Likely where the published ground clearance comes from)

Other points of interest:
Gas tank skid, minimum 10" of clearance
Rear diff, also looks like 10" (didn't crawl under to measure, just eyeballed based off the gas tank, which I did measure)

Overall, better than I remembered/ thought it would be. Bottom line is, you could drive over a 9" log on a flat surface without scraping (slowly, so you don't bounce and hit when you come off), or ignore any rocks sticking up less than 8". Anything different will depend on tire path, and what the ground does before or after the obstacle (trails are hopefully rougher than my garage).

That Forester could likely do the same with an 8-3/4" log and 8" rocks so not a huge difference in the grand scheme of things.*

For articulation or ride comfort, and what happens after you start scraping, I'm sure there are a ton of differences, but just comparing clearances, there's not a huge difference.

*Important to note that this is a stock 4R compared to a lifted (~1"?) Forester, so you could similarly squeeze some more clearance out of the 4Runner, but it still wont be earth-shattering.

 

Now crawl under a Subaru. There is a big difference. If you are driving through deep snow, sand or mud in the 4Runner only those few low points are going to be touching while the rest of the body is much higher. The entire underside of a Subaru is in the same plane and will all be touching/bottomed out.

 

The National Parks Service recently banned Subarus and other cars from many 4X4 trails because they’re too low and the AWD systems aren’t capable enough to traverse the backcountry without tearing up the ground. If your Subaru can handle the roads you’re regularly driving on, a RAV, CRV or even a nice Highlander would be fine. Where I drive in snow country, there are a decent amount of Subarus but when we get heavy snow, an Outback or Forester won’t cut it. You’ll need a higher clearance vehicle.

https://www.theautopian.com/why-the...ehicle-on-certain-trails-and-how-to-avoid-it/

 

The rear solid axle of the 4runner allows for articulation that the subarus or other awd cars can’t match. This allows it to maintain traction in various types of terrain. In other words, by not losing traction to begin with, it wouldn’t need to rely on traction aids until things get much more gnarly. Where as subarus and other awd vehicles depend on clutch packs, viscous couplings, brakes, etc) for nearly every obstacle. It’s not a small detail, as it lets the 4runner travel on difficult terrain all day, every day, without really taxing anything at all.

 

The only chance of turbo engines falling to the wayside is significant growth in hybrids. Apparently, there is a replacement for displacement.

Toyota literally wrote the book on iterative manufacturing... they'll resolve the issues and they'll be great, just, not right away. The 3rd gen Taco was a pile to start but it was good by 2018 and great by 2020.

 

Yeah, this is a major difference, locking the front and rear axles together will always beat the AWD offroad. The Subarus will overheat after too much abuse, too (I've heard of them just giving up in deep snow).

This plus the extra articulation Spaz mentioned probably makes up the majority of the difference the National Park service recognizes.

 

No Subarus in my garage, but I can check out the Rav4 next time I'm down there.

It is very flat (certainly flatter than my SILs Outback), with lots of plastic / flatness since it is the Hybrid (need that wind resistance). I'm more so curious where the published ground clearance is measured now (supposedly 8.6").

 

I will say, everyone is citing something aside from ground clearance when saying how much better the 4R is than a Subaru offroad, which kind of proves the point that the ground clearance isn't making or breaking either car.

Just look at the Frontier, which has historically had shit ground clearance, and those are fine off-road due to the true 4wd system and solid axle.

 

Yep. Subaru is no match for a real 4WD. Slightest climb giving all drama with wheel spinning and having ABS work overtime.



Also 4WD vehicles have far more stronger components than these AWD cars.
https://youtu.be/ceSFYccOzDg?feature=shared

 

Probably the ugliest vehicle I've seen in quite a while