Premium Gas or Regular Gas?

This is why I’m confused lol

 

Re-gearing just runs the engine at a higher rpm for any given wheel speed. There's no power increase.

Once you get to the shorter ratios like 5.29, the gear set also becomes weaker due to the finer tooth pitch. Though it's usually not a problem with 4.56 or 4.88.

 

I'm on 35s with the Tacoma - I can spin tires on dry pavement on stock gearing. However, the Tacoma has slightly shorter gearing than the 4Runner (3.91 vs. 3.73).

 

You could do both also. Doesn’t have to be an “or” situation. Regears are going for $3000+ these days. Many may want to try the $500-600 tune first. Most tuners will update the tune for free if the customer regears later anyway. A little torque also goes a long way for changing shift behavior. The ECU commands a torque under load, if the engine can deliver it at lower rpm, it doesn’t trigger a downshift.

 

I think a lot of people have been confused by that.

There are some articles explaining why it's different. But, basically 91 "research" octane is about the same as 87. I wish I could explain, but I don't really understand it either.

 

The increased torque sounds nice,. But, the crawl gear on the 4Runner isn't even great on stock tires. I'd be tempted to regear just for that reason alone. I'm even tempted to regear on 33's.

Agreed. A tune sounds like it would be great for on road drivability. The regear would be more beneficial off-road. Both combined would be fantastic!

 

10% more torque from a software update may not impress everyone I guess. When did you do your regear, what gears did you go with? Out here, parts are $1200-1500 for gears and a master install kit, depending on gear brand, plus 8-12 hours of labor at $100-150/hr for a competent shop to do the work that will stand behind it if it goes bad. Can also do the ECGS prebuilt 3rd member and core trade, but that’s still $2k with shipping, and I don’t consider my time “free”. Either way, enjoy your truck just the way you like it, that’s what matters. I’ll do the same with mine.

 

We have to use distilled for more horsepower when towing and I use a descaling tablet every 5,000 Miles. I saw the post by the guy who uses a descaling tablet every 2,000 Miles but that's overkill even with hard water.

The manual says use a tablet every 10,000 but that's too long an interval.

 

Ive hear Premier is a solid shop in SoCal. Does me no good in UT. Cheapest way to regear here is ECGS pre-built. These prices are after you’ve sent in your cores and doesn’t include shipping or taxes or install labor.
Anyway, back to original topic of premium vs regular gas. Your ECU will advance ignition timing further on 91+ Octane vs 87. It’s how the ECU logic works, it is constantly watching knock feedback and adjusting timing, it will advance more on 91+, and It will make more power and torque on 91+. Whether it’s worth it is up to everyone individually.

**edit** the post linked below has some discussion on how Toyota vehicles adapt with fuel octane, and you can see it work when you data log vehicles with various software tools.
https://www.4runners.com/threads/overland-torque-tune-ott-by-overland-tailor.27827/#post-417076

 

I run plain old 87. There is a huge difference in various 87 octane varieties in my area, however. The best 87 octane will get me about the same mpg as ethanol-free 91 octane, so the extra $.70 per gallon doesn't make economic sense.

But, the worst 87 octane vs. the average ethanol-free premium is quite a difference in mileage and performance. Running crappy 87 octane feels like I am driving into a 20 mph head wind all the time.

So I have learned which stations have the best 87 octane and which have the worst.

But we are talking about a worst of 15.6 mpg vs. a best of 16.4 mpg, so not exactly ground-breaking numbers.

More important is to use a bottle of your preferred fuel system cleaner every oil change and call it good. I use Lucas.

 

I don't think fuel system cleaners are necessary either.

 

Gas already contains detergents as mandated by state and federal law so the cleaners we buy do basically nothing on a vehicle that's used regularly.

 

I use Sams club now (since I got a 50% off, LoL) and their gas is not Top Tier. Any idea if they have the same detergents? Or I have to pump top-tier gas time to time just to be on the safe side?

 

That is why we asked for a run on 87 with the tune. If I can get better shift patterns and a little more low end torque for $500, worth it.

 

Your Runner will be fine. Top Teir is like organic food products...it's just a label.

 

Not true! Organic food is also more expensive.

I can only distinctly remember getting bad gas once in probably 500-600K miles of driving. No lasting issues. I just got really shitty mileage. I do try to stick to certain gas stations, but that's mostly just personal preference.

 

My father is a chemical engineer who worked at Sunoco 31 years. I also work in a refinery. The first time I used the term ‘top tier gas’ with my father he said “what’s that?” ‘Top Tier’ is a term created by the media. All gasoline has minimum requirements for additives/detergents, certain stations may add more at the pump but it’s all the same.
Here’s a link worth reading…
https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Business/story?id=2978563&page=1

 

I thought I got bad gas once. After fueling up and starting, my engine would run rough and I'd get a CEL sometimes for an overly rich fuel mixture. It started doing this a fill up or two after using expensive gas from a mom and pop while in the middle of nowhere. Turns out I had installed some purge valve in the wrong orientation when I installed the supercharger. The engine was sucking up fuel from the tank through the vapor line and possibly through the charcoal canister.

I guess I wasn't eating enough organic food so my brain wasn't at 100% during the install.

 

I have heard that all local gas stations regardless of brand, get their gas from the same local refinery/storage facility. Some brands may add their own additives?

From my experience, it’s more important that you buy gas from a station that does a fair amount of business to ensure your getting fresh gas.

 

All gasoline in the US has the minimum amount of detergent required. Toyota wants more. The minimum isn’t enough. From my owner manual (Bold added):

●Toyota recommends the use of gasoline that contains detergent additives to avoid the build-up of engine deposits.
●All gasoline sold in the U.S.A. contains minimum detergent additives to clean and/or keep clean intake systems, per EPA's lowest additives concentration program.
●Toyota strongly recommends the use of Top Tier Detergent Gasoline. For more information on Top Tier Detergent Gasoline and a list of marketers, please go to the official website www.toptiergas.com.

https://www.autolist.com/guides/top-tier-gas

“In 1996 the EPA began to regulate the minimum level of detergents in gasoline for road vehicles. Testing had revealed that car emissions were getting cleaner, but after a few thousand miles, carbon buildup meant that vehicles were polluting well above acceptable limits.”

 

Fortunate to have a Costco close by, their 87 octane is all I use

 

Whenever traveling I search for Costco stations along the route. Costco claims their gas contains five times the EPA minimum detergent requirement. And in the west it’s 40 to 90 cents per gallon cheaper.

 

Costco gas simply the best. Same quality as Shell and Mobil.
Yet a lot cheaper. High level of detergents.
Regular only
Premium - waste of money for T4R engines

 

Sadly here in Colorado regular is 85 octane. Since owners manual doesn't say you can run 85 octane my next option is Premium which is 91 octane. If we had 87 at Costco def running 87

 

It seems that many people run 85 in higher elevation without issues. Have you tried it?

 

Like most folks on this forum who aren’t loopy — — I run 87 unless for some reason that’s not available. Like @kmeeg, I’d certainly go 91 if my only other choice was 85. Not that I’ve ever been in that predicament!

But I do try to stick with Top Tier. That said, I don’t sweat it if I’m in a hurry and the only choice is a generic brand. This engine is not picky!

 

No sir. Haven't even used on courtesy vehicles I had like the BMW X5. I used Premium for that one. LoL.

 

@Thatbassguy forgot to mention the black SR5 on my videos using 85 octane gas ever since and I do not feel any difference driving it. Right now it should have closer to 70000 miles or may be more. Haven't driven it recently. Not a single engine problem for even from the cheap spacer lift.

 

What the "scientists" say is use at least the grade that the engineers determine the engine required to avoid detonation. Typically the higher the compression ratio, the higher the boost, and the more advanced the timing is the higher the octane required.

Using more than the minimum octane is counterproductive unless the ECU can adjust timing and fuel to take advantage of it. Higher octane fuels have less energy and burn slower than low octane.

And in the US we don't use Motor octane either.

North American gas pumps are rated in AKI ( (R+M)/2 ) method which is an average of the values determined via Motor and Research octane testing methods. The rest of the world - including Japan and most of continental Europe just use the straight RON number so what is sold as 87 here would say 91 on the pump in Toyota City.

See a description of the test methods here and a table of the common octane ratings sold in various countries.

 

Thank you for the clarification.