People are not buying EVs

It's like that time when Uncle Herb let Homer design a car.

 

Formula 1 cars used to have a really high profile tire until just recently when the switch was made.



The consensus is that the new wheel size slowed the cars down, as opposed to speeding them up.

Sidewall doesn’t have to be a bad thing. You just need to consider it as part of your overall suspension tuning. More sidewall means you can actually run a stiffer suspension.

Low profile tires are more of a marketing exercise than anything else.

 

There's definitely a point where low profile tires become a little ridiculous. I don't think I could handle driving a vehicle with no sidewall. My ex blew a tire on our TC with 18's hitting a pothole. I can't imagine how many flats people get with 20's, and even bigger wheels.

But, we live in a world where people do stupid things because they think it looks good.

 

What do you mean? Lexus customer service is second to none. Have you ever set foot in a Jeep dealership? I have been dealing with them all my life, they are the worst

 

I owned a Model S. Folks here don't get my point, speed is not the most important thing. I dumped the Model S for a Hemi Grand Cherokee that'a an absolute joy. I regret not getting a Challenger though.

 

What made you get rid of the model S?

I would never own a Tesla for the simple fact that the infotainment/HVAC is a gigantic iPad. Hard pass. Mind you, I'm a millennial that grew up with computers and have an iPhone.

 

It was fast and fun for a while but then got super boring. Unless you have some agenda in your mind that keeps you going, EVs get boring real fast.

 

Aah I know what you mean, I thought you were talking about just the torque/acceleration. Yes, agreed, even if those vehicles would be "slower" they are much more fun, than an electric.

 

Lexus dealers are scummy as can be on the sales side - literally the worst brand I have ever entertained.

Too many people walk in there and will just straight up buy whatever because it’s a Lexus.

Acura has treated me well. Alfa Romeo was a headache. BMW was fine on the sales side but not service. Chevrolet was unremarkable, which is fine. Ford was okay. Honda was a little greedy, but not too bad. Jeep was so bad on the service side we took our cars to a Dodge dealer. Lincoln was scummy on the sales side - walked out the door. Mitsubishi used to be good, no reason to set foot there now. Subaru dealers need to be taken down a peg. Toyota was an experience where I have walked away from the table, and where it was ok enough to purchase my 4Runner.

Hands down, the best experience ever: Volvo. No freaking contest. We have been treated wonderfully by the Volvo dealers we have used. If I purchased only based on the way I was treated, we’d own five Volvos.

I might have forgotten one or two, but Volvo for the customer experience win.

 

That’s also a larger car.

Smaller cars are more fun.

I had a hoot hooning the Fiesta ST at the LA Auto Show one year. Probably won the “fun to drive” out of the ones I tried (CTS-V, various SRT Dodges, etc.)

 

Weird. I've been in 2 Lexus dealerships, and both experiences were positive. One let me drive an IS (20+ years ago) even being from out of state (and young, and probably obviously not able to afford it). The other gave me a tour of the dealership and talked about how they have been recognized for their excellent service shop experience.

You really can't lump all of a brand's dealerships together, though. I've been to enough Toyota dealerships in S/E Wisconsin to know that they're all different.

 

I like the technology, but we’re way far away from jumping straight into them. Also, from what I’ve heard, people hate being told what to buy.

 

Maybe it's just boring because it's electric.

 

Wow, you’ve bought new cars from at least 13 different manufacturers?

 

Marketers love to tell you what to drive while convincing you it was your idea.

Or anything else you are inclined to do.

Political campaigns, selling products…both are built around convincing you of something while making you think it was your idea in the first place.

The idea of a personal carbon footprint was designed by BP’s ad agency to distract people from any role they had in polluting our environment. And it worked.

The tobacco companies are true masters of this.

And heck, all the election foreign interference stuff amused the heck out of me because we do that all the time in other countries.

People are driving trucks and SUVs because of a regulatory loophole that was created, combined with protectionism for the Big 3.



Watch through to the third part.

Never put too much faith in your own choices not being the result of someone else putting their thumb on the scale.

 

Some I walked out of the dealership of, but I’ve gotten around when it comes to cars.

When salesmen ask me what I’m cross shopping, they look at me like I’m insane when I tell them.

Didn’t include two wheel transport in there, and I forgot to mention my experience with Hyundai and VW.

 

I'd argue that some of us drive trucks and SUV's because they suit our lifestyle.

 

Indeed.

But most of the purchases are using them for mundane family hauling.

 

Some people just buy cars because they like the way they look. Who cares?

 

I work for a global ad agency. The amount of research, focus groups we did with 3 of the top 5 vehicle brands. We study cognitive decision making on how you justify. You can laugh at that wont work on you but it does. We have scientists that specialize in it. If you think you have agency of thinking, it takes a lot of control on that most people know it isn’t right yet we buy into it. All justification makes it emotional/want pull. Odds are you might use it but the cost vs the use is rare for most people.

 

Then explain why we went from a low percentage of trucks and SUVs on the road to companies like Ford and Chevy all but abandoning cars.

It’s not because people suddenly needed more space than a Ford Crown Vic or a Buick Roadmaster station wagon provided.

Have you ever noticed that large vehicles with V8s don’t exist anymore unless they are “trucks”, with V6s being on their way to extinction as well? People didn’t reject having cars with big motors.

You personally may want an SUV, but the fact of the matter is that they sell in the numbers they do because government regulation has incentivized making larger vehicles because of a boneheaded move, the car companies figured this out and leaned into it, and all along the Big 3 exploited the fact that if they could convince people to use pickups the way they used to use station wagons, foreign competitors would be screwed because of the 25% tariff we slap on trucks made overseas above a certain weight.

So great, every suburban household has bland SUVs that weigh too much and don’t really have all that much room on the inside. The only part of the SUV name that holds true for the vast majority is “vehicle”

Imagine a different scenario: we hadn’t given trucks and SUVs preferential treatment in our regulations. Car companies would have focused more on selling cars, and they would be better. Trucks would be more truck like, because they don’t have to convince suburban households who don’t work in the trades to buy one.

Better cars and better trucks.

Fuel economy would be better overall, so gas prices would be lower. There wouldn’t have been the push to move all vehicles to the turbo charged 2.0l inline four, so V8s and V6s would be in more applications.

There would likely not be as big of a push for EVs.

But instead, we get nonsense like this:



The point is, most SUVs are dumb and unnecessary. They are a product of an ill-advised regulatory framework.

And for everyone who dislikes the immense push for EVs in the US, you have the SUV obsession that marketers created to thank for it.

Oh, and on the 25% tariff, that same tariff simultaneously saved Harley Davidson, while also making it all but certain that it’ll die out with the Baby Boomers, or perhaps with Gen X. Government regulation created a safe space for them, and they leaned into it…and now they are screwed because they can’t seem to build anything but overpriced bikes that trade on a name and an image that is being rejected by people under 45.

At any rate, the future is going to be that even if there isn’t a shift to EVs, we’re going to see low cost Chinese brands enter the market and make a killing. Vehicles have gotten really expensive, regardless of power source, and it’s creating the sort of opening that was exploited almost 40 years ago by a company selling a crappy hatchback that cost $4995.

Hyundai.

The only hope companies have against the inevitable entrance of Chinese brands is to make vehicles that are more affordable.

Like cars.

Or we can rejoice that Ferrari is finally selling an SUV.

I wonder how long it’ll be until they put ugly cladding on a Miata, give it a bit of a suspension lift, and call it a truck.

 

I’m just happy that when I was in the crosswalk with the walk sign illuminated as I was run down by someone, it was in an age before everyone was driving an SUV.

I’m grateful I landed on the hood before taking flight.

We’d all be safer if we took the vehicle size arms race down a few pegs.

 

Crossovers are cars, not SUVs. Lifting a Camry makes it a Rav4, not an SUV. SUVs have been popular for decades, it is not something new. Giant Land Cruisers and Wagoneers were in demand even in the 70's.

 

I would so love to hang out with your scientists to pick up some useful tradecraft to employ the next time I’m in DC to do some persuading.

 

Crossovers are trucks.

If you don’t believe me, go look at fueleconomy.gov.

The Subaru Crosstrek is a truck, per the EPA.

 

@bassist you are spot on. Bigger the car, the idea of safety, etc is a false narratives. The US market is all about bigger is safer. Over charged vehicles, less gas milage, and multi year payments etc. unless you are living in areas that Warrant it. Living in places that actually need it. I get snow dumps of 6”-36” snow dumps.

 

We are in agreement.

 

Funny and sad. Can't tow, can't wheel, but can take bullets

 

If I recall correctly, the PT Cruiser was classified as a truck as well.

Agree with you 100% on your points of marketing and govt regulations.