People are not buying EVs

Almost as if the money would have been better spent at high schools and vocational schools teaching people how to fix up older vehicles.

I'm not one to point at Cuba for much, but because of our sanctions on them for the past 50+ years they've got some sweet ass 50's-60's vehicles still on the road in seemingly good condition

 

No - EV trucks are dumb.

I ended up with a 4Runner because I wanted something that had lower running costs than my previous vehicle with fewer things to go wrong, combined with something I could take off road.

Also, it needs to be able to fit a double bass and amp, or a bass guitar in a hard shell case and my amplifier stack. Or the occasional drum kit. Or guitar equipment.

Let’s just say music stuff.

Couldn’t bring myself to buy a Wrangler because they seem overpriced and every time I have driven a Jeep, it has left me on the side of the road at one point.

If I didn’t go 4Runner, I would have gone Bronco, but I thought the 4Runner represented a better value, especially given the markups.

My fuel economy didn’t really change from my last vehicle, but now I get to buy 87 octane, which is nice.

If I were to get an EV that was large, it’d be some sort of van type vehicle.

Meanwhile, my wife’s Bolt is fine for when I want to drive a vehicle like I stole it.

 

A lot of them have Toyota engines swapped in.

 

Toyota currently makes a hydrogen fuel cell now. The Toyota Murai. There are two major downsides now. Hydrogen costs $18 per gallon (last time I checked, anyway). The other is that the engineers have not figured out a way to stop hydrogen from leaking at all of the plumbing fittings. The molecules are just too small. I have read (hopefully truthful) articles about people filling up a Murai and then not driving it for a couple of weeks. Then getting into the car to go somewhere and finding the hydrogen tank is almost empty. If this is true, and I think it is, this is a major downside.

The leakage from the fittings is a major concern for aviation engineers. How to manufacture a safe aircraft with a combustible gas leaking everywhere.

 

Why Bolt, why not the RAV4 Prime? Put some ko2s on that bad boy, it can even wheel.

 

Doesn't change the fact we could have done that here rather than crush them in the name of the environment, or whatever cash for clunkers was setup for (it's been a while and nobody cares anymore)

 

Leaking gas is not an issue, the Hindenburg is nothing but a success story...

 

Bolt was WAY cheaper, even before the $7500 credit. We can even do a Costco run and still fit all of us comfortably to boot.

 

But they wanted to help GM, Ford and Chrysler sell cars.

Which almost worked.

 

Oh yeah, almost forgot about the government incentives for bailing out US auto manufacturers. Now we have EV tax credits that are also about to expire - wonder how well that turns out

 

There is a reason it was way cheaper, it is GM

 

Can't argue with that. There is a reason American manufacturers almost went out of business and they are now chasing Tesla, who has about 15 years of R&D on them.

They've now thrown all of their eggs in one basket though to keep up with media hype, and it may bankrupt them again.

EVs and hybrids have their place. I think EVs are more of a European market - simply because cities are closer together. Hybrids probably fit the American market better because we are so spread out. But we skipped the hybrid step as american manufacturers and went straight EV because of... media and initial numbers that don't support a long term, sustainable trend?

I feel like I'm in the movie groundhog day sometimes when it comes to government and business. I feel like in 5-15 years they are going to have to be bailed out again

 

Ford was smart they copied Toyota's hybrid technology, Ford can build decent hybrids. The rest are shit out of luck.

 

Didn't they also cut a deal to use Tesla charging stations recently?

Also, wasn't Ford one of the only ones to NOT take gov't money during the bailouts?

I mean, I don't think their electric truck (new lightning?) made out that well but, at least they didn't get handouts and are working with others to find a solution. That's how good businesses should survive, not through cash for your busted ass clunkers

 

Not a fan of Ford, but not a hater either. They make ok vehicles. I wouldn't hesistate in buying their lil Maverick. They got a rude awakening with their EV crap and that's good. They should focus on hybrids.

 

Had a '96 explorer myself and was not impressed with the 4wd system.

But as a generic consumer, and an american taxpayer, I do respect their business practices more than others

 

Their AWD sucks, your Explorer must have been AWD. Did it have low range?

 

To be fair, GM has never left me stranded, unlike Jeep.

The economics of it all works out pretty well, and that’s what the purchase of the car was about. The only other car that was a serious contender would have been a base model Impreza.

 

The Big 3 all have done hybrids.

GM had the hybrid Tahoe, for example. Which nobody bought.

 

If speed is the most important thing, then would you say yes to a free Lexus LFA with only one condition that you wear pretty beefy earbuds each time you drive it? That would be a painfully boring LFA experience, no experience at all in other words.

 

I wouldn't even go to a car race of EVs. Why would I want to see some funny toys zipping around?

 

People are buying EV's, sales numbers are still going up - just not as fast as the OEM's were hoping. Prices are still too high for most people, but they will come down fast. The OEM's are losing money on EV's and they are at a real risk going out of business if they don't figure out how to make more of them at lower prices fast.

Used EV prices are already starting to come down. Lithium prices and EV Battery prices have come down about 75% in the last year or so. We are at the beginning of the curve, more and more EV models will be on the market each year, more used EV's will be available which will drive used prices down, etc. The US will take longer than most countries and there may always be a place for hybrids as we tend to drive longer distances than most, but EV sales will continue to grow and ICE sales will continue to decline.

I bought my 23 ORP a year after putting in a pre-order for a Rivian R1S (price locked in at about $72K after tax credit which includes underbody protection, AT tires and wheels, adjustable suspension with up to 15" clearance, 4 motors, 800+ HP, 060 in about 3.5 sec, and about 320 miles of range.) They won't sell me one yet since they have no service center near where I live, but maybe by 2025 or so they will. We put solar on our home with extra capacity specifically to be able to charge an EV for free. We are now looking to replace my wife's car with an EV, probably a new Model Y for about $45K or very low mileage used Audi Q4, also about $45K now. We have seen prices come down significantly in the last year. There should be multiple options in the $35K price range very soon, and when Tesla or anyone else comes out with a sub $30K EV that they can actually mass produce, they will sell FAST.

Rivian will have a smaller SUV and a smaller truck out, probably by 2026 and in the 50K price range - this will absolutely compete with the 4Runner/Tacoma and will likely be eligible for the $7500 tax credit. Jeep will very likely have some EV options as well by then.

If cheap Chinese EV's hit the market here they will undercut everybody like the Japanese cars did in the 80's, and the american OEM's will be looking for another bailout.

 

Have you driven a Model Y performance .
Its insane how quickly it can move.
But I get your original point. I think EVs are too expensive even with all the incentives, and unlike tesla no one else has come up with vertical integration to make it worthwhile for them to make EVs.
Ford loses ~$61K per vehicle, Lucid loses ~$250K. Lets just say there is a lot of room for "improvement"

 

You just wait till cybertruck comes out...anyday now...its just been over 4 years we've waited.

 

I'll never care about the Cyber truck. It's just so ugly. I could never get over it.

 

Oof that thing is fugly. Looks like PS1 graphics came to life.

 

100%. I do not know what they were thinking. Not sure what comes out in production vehicle, but its not pretty as it is.

 

I drove cars most of my life too, but the roads are just so bad here in the NE. But yeah a non low profile tire would help a lot, just defeats the purpose of a sporty car.

 

Do I have to set foot in a Lexus dealer?


That’s the only dealbreaker.

I’ll do you one better: I’d gladly accept a used Formula E car with full mechanical support, free of charge.

 

I had the OEM 18" wheels in my GTI and bent 1 wheel when I hit a pothole. I "downgraded" to 17" wheels with meatier tires and never had any issues with potholes again. Northeastern state roads suck booty.