Oil viscosity

Just run 0w20, any good synthetic on sale.

 

Weird. Maybe they made a separate manual for Puerto Rico in 2020.

It really doesn't matter, since it's been the exact same engine since 2009.

It does still say this:

"The 20 in 0W-20 indicates the viscosity characteristic of the oil
when the oil is at high temperature. An oil with a higher viscosity
(one with a higher value) may be better suited if the vehicle is
operated at high speeds, or under extreme load conditions."

 

Nothing wrong with this, but...

The manual recommends higher viscosity in some situations, as mentioned above. While I don't think 0w-20 will hurt the engine, it seems that higher viscosity might provide more protection for people who are harder on their vehicles.

 

^ There is a forum called BobstheOilGuy. They will talk crazy detail on oils, viscosity, shear, additives etc.
My 6.4 Litre 1993 LT1 is built for drag racing. 5w30 is all that was recommended.
Same oil when it was stock.
As long as you have clean oil, proper pressure, temperature , oil change intervals, and viscosity recommended by the engineers, you will be fine.
Heck, why not get a oil analysis done by blackstone using 5w30 then 0w20... at your normal oil change timeframe.. it would be interesting..
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/new-4runner-amsoil-or-toyota-oil.346791/

 

Yeah, I've seen that website.

To your comment in bold, the manual recommends higher viscosity in some scenarios. So, that's all I am saying. 0W-20 is probably totally fine for most driving. But, if the manual suggests that some would benefit from higher viscosity, I wouldn't hesitate to use higher viscosity.

 

Actually, the manual wording is very ambiguous. The full manual quote is:

Oil viscosity (0W-20 is explained here as an example):
• The 0W in 0W-20 indicates the characteristic of the oil which
allows cold startability. Oils with a lower value before the W allow
for easier starting of the engine in cold weather.
• The 20 in 0W-20 indicates the viscosity characteristic of the oil
when the oil is at high temperature. An oil with a higher viscosity
(one with a higher value) may be better suited if the vehicle is
operated at high speeds, or under extreme load conditions.

So they are saying 0W-20 is an "example" (whatever that means). Using your interpretation, we should also be looking for an oil thinner than 0W for cold weather starting. So maybe they are saying that (wink-wink) you can use higher than 20 weight, or maybe they are just explaining viscosity to the lay person. Who knows.

Unfortunately, the way my brain works, I get nervous thinking that if I ever need to use the 5/50k power train warranty for an engine issue, Toyota could reject a claim if I've been using 5W-30. So I think I'll wait until the warranty period expires.

 

I don't believe there is oil thinner than 0w.

I'm not sure how my "interpretation" would suggest that we should be looking for that. The manual doesn't say anything about oil thinner than 0w being better for cold starting.

But, it does say that "An oil with a higher viscosity
(one with a higher value) may be better suited if the vehicle is
operated at high speeds, or under extreme load conditions."

 

OP here.
0W-20, 5W-20, work best when temperatures are under 68*F. That’s not to say they won’t work in all driving conditions. But, “will work” is not the same as “optimal”.

From repair smith.com:
In terms of their operating temperature range, both these grades operate well up to 68 °F. They are resistant to problems like oil burning and excessive oil consumption under high oil pressure and warmer temperature conditions.

https://www.repairsmith.com/i/blog/0w-20-vs-5w-20/

So, for where I live, a higher viscosity oil is probably better. Since our summer temperatures rarely drop below 68*.
Again, from repair smith.com:


10W-40 motor oil’s greater tolerance for hotter temperatures means that it’s better at resisting thermal breakdown and reducing deposit formation.

So, if you drive in a warm climate — especially more than 32°C (90°F) — or have an engine that runs hotter than others, 10W-40 oil viscosity is a good option. This higher viscosity oil is designed for hotter temperatures and can handle the added heat stress from the environment.

https://www.repairsmith.com/i/blog/10w30-vs-10w40/#:~:text=Here's the recommended ambient temperature,°C (104°F)

5W-30 would be a good compromise.

 

I’m curious,

What is the fundamental pushback from running the manufacturers recommended 0w20?

 

Because people think vehicle manufacturers are willing to concede reliability/longevity to meet icky environmental regulations. Plus older folks like myself are used to the 5W-30 & 10W-40 oils that were recommended "back in the old days" before 0W-20 even existed as an option. My dad is an old-school retired mechanic who started his career in the early 1960s. Built his own drag cars and everything. I can remember him still putting the STP oil treatment (you know, the blue slime stuff) along with 10W-40 into his new vehicles in the 2010 timeframe. It was ingrained in his head that thicker is always better.

I used to think this too when 0W-20 was being recommended by Toyota 10-12 years ago, but since then I haven't heard of any engine failures due to using the recommended viscosity at recommended oil change intervals. Plus, as was mentioned above by @ReRunner , the formulaic use of additives has allowed for lower viscosity oils that actually have as good, or better, protection than the higher viscosity oils from over a decade ago when the 1GR was designed.

 

If this were true, why does the manufacturer also recommend 5W-20 and 5W-30 in all conditions in Puerto Rico? And, up to 15W-40 in warmer climates? And, would they recommend higher viscosity for high speed driving and heavy loads? If 0W-20 provides the best protection, why would we need to bump up to a higher viscosity just because we drive fast, or tow?

So, basically what we've been saying?

Some of us are convinced that the recommendation is based on optimum fuel economy, not optimum protection. And, the manual recommends higher viscosity in some situations, which many of us might qualify for.

 

If I'm not mistaken, a 0wXX oil will flow more easily at cold/cool conditions than a higher number, lubricating 'dry' parts (such as from overnight parking) more quickly. And the higher number (20, 30, 40) indicates the oil's properties at higher temps. If this is true, what harm would there be in using a 0wXX oil? Isn't the '0' the best number to have when cold or after having sat for a period of time? If you're concerned about hot driving conditions, isn't the second number the one to be focused on? I could be missing something.

 

Another thing to consider, it is a 270 hp V6. Its not a super high hp, turbo/supercharged high revving engine which tends to create more friction and heat. Its a low rpm torque motor.. Its not under a lot of stress per say.
0W20 was designed for fuel efficiency. All multi weights were at some point. If they didnt care, we would still have 30W oil in our cars, with no additives.

 

Yes. The note in the manual seems to focus on the hot viscosity. If I were to adjust, I'd probably go with 0W-30 if it were readily available. Otherwise, 5W is probably fine unless you're in a cold climate.

 

True. But, towing and off-roading can put it's own kind of stress on things.

I personally think that 0W-20 is probably the best thing to run for most people in most conditions. But, maybe those of us who really beat on these things, maybe 0W-30 or 5W-30 would be ideal.

I'm not an expert, though. This is just based on what the manual says.

 

In bold. We are encouraged to use 0W-20 in the US for fuel economy reasons. That's what some of us think, at least.

I'm pretty sure we agree here, at least for the most part.

 

I don't know. Yes, we were originally encouraged to use 0W-20 in the U.S. for fuel economy reasons. But that doesn't mean manufacturers haven't since then revised engine design to work best with 0W-20. And even though the fundamental 1GR-FE is an old design, that doesn't mean tolerances, ring tension, seal material, and who knows what else was updated since the original design.

Also, we're going to have to agree to disagree on the manual recommendation. It is not clear to me that (at least for 2020 and up) the manual recommends higher viscosity in some situations. If that were the case they certainly could have been more specific about it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to using a higher weight. I'm considering it myself because I want to do what's best for the engine. It's just not clear to me at this point exactly what that is...

 

Possibly, but I would bet it's exactly the same.

These are from the 2020 and 2021 manuals.

 

Sorry for confusing 4000 rpms with a caddy 3.6 litre. When I speak of high revving engines, I speak of engines that dont start to make power till 4 to 5 k and redlines at 7-9k. Sports car engines, porches, ferraris, audi R8, lambos etc. There are many, and they require special oils to accomadate rapid and high temp changes, much more extreme than what a 4runner motor sees.
Oil, Politics, Religion are areas where there are no winners.
Just put what you want in it, really, 0w15, 0w16 ( its out there and being put in Toyotas too), 0W20, 5W30, 10W40, 15W40.. The Toyota engine will take it and like it.. Its that solid of an engine.

 

Thanks Rerunner.

OP

 

For those of you who like to research oil and viscosity. Very long read but full of good information:

540 RAT - Tech Facts, NOT Myths (wordpress.com)

 

Go here and use this search string:
60. Test Data on the new 5W30

 

Well, he sure didn’t think much of Toyota’s standard oil filter.

 

I still agree that 0W-20 is probably the best oil for most people most of the time.

I suppose it's possible that the recommendation for higher viscosity in some scenarios is based on the expectation that oil will degrade faster in those conditions. Maybe I should be thinking of how the oil will perform over the course of 5,000 miles, rather than the actual viscosity rating. This probably comes right back to your point about additives.

I still run 0W-20 and drive mine like I stole it. I just wonder if I'd be better off using a higher viscosity with the way I drive, or are the 5k intervals enough to compensate for the extra strain.

I'm probably still overthinking this. But, my original plan was to keep this for a few decades.

 

My oil definitely looks used at 5K. But, not bad. I haven't noticed it being thin.

 

You reference ambient air temperatures of 33-86F and 86 to 121F. That’s just a concern for cold starting. After warm up all engine oils should be getting above 220F or so. Running hard at hot temp and high load is where oils break down and that is where the concern is.

 

A relatively new well maintained 4Runner radiator IS very efficient at radiating engine heat.
Have you ever tracked your coolant temperature over varying conditions on a long drive, varying speeds, steep grades, idling in cold or hot weather, slow rock crawling uphill in 100F desert heat? I have and my 4Runner coolant temperature doesn’t vary that much, 185-205F.

 

If anyone is concerned of their brand, viscosity etc of oil used, get a Oil ANalysys at Blackstone. Takes all the guessing out of what you think is happening to the oil at high mileage.
I ran Mobil 1 in a Corolla and did it at 9800 miles. I did change the filter at 5000 miles, and the analysis said I had an easy 2000 miles left on the oil. It was a 2002 engine..
https://www.blackstone-labs.com/engine-types/gasoline/

 

The OP had the right idea in his first post. He’s driving in a hot climate. Not so concerned about cold temperature starts. A thicker oil would probably be better for his 4R as the owner manual states.

I have seen no Toyota documentation that says the 5th Gen 4Runner engine was
specifically designed to require 0W-20 oil. Documentation from other auto manufacturers shows a push by them to get EPA approval to use thinner oils in an attempt to get better fuel economy and emissions. Toyota was most likely on board with this effort.

5W-30 is probably ideal for the OP’s 4Runner, based temperature charts in other country owner manuals and previous editions of the US manuals. And the testing done by the likes of 540Rat.

 

I think PVT Pablo nailed it LOL.