KDSS worth the cost?

Seems to be one of the better walk throughs of KDSS I have seen.

 

I just also believe KDSS works great when paired to a stock suspension and if your just a typcial 4 runner buyer a $2000 dealer upgrade is cheap performance and youd be silly not too. Once you modify past stock such as with a pro or most aftermarket suspensions KDSS enhancements decline significantly. Much like multi terrain select and crawl control, its not really necessary, but nice to have.

 

How do KDSS enhancements decline significantly with aftermarket suspension?

 

the whole point of it is to reduce body roll on hard corners. Most aftermarket suspensions will tend to do that as well. Im not saying its benefits dissapear mind you but I am saying the difference will be diminished.

 

Wrong as usual on this topic.

The reduced body roll is only half of what KDSS does. The increased articulation off-road continues to be a benefit until someone decides to go very high lift or long travel.

They do not. The only way it becomes obsolete is when the suspension is modified to the extent that the sway bars must be removed. This will occur with the regular sway bar as well.

You will find that some folks here really don't know what KDSS is, but will still comment in these threads.

 

It's clear from a zillion expert and user reviews that KDSS is excellent at what it's designed for: improved articulation off road while actually reducing body roll on road (instead of the opposite, which is what you'd usually get from a suspension designed to maximize articulation). So it's pretty amazing.

But -- Having driven both an ORP with KDSS and a Limited with XREAS, I can attest that XREAS is much better at reducing body roll and also does a very nice job reducing nose dive.

So to Bassguy's point, folks shouldn't confuse the two systems. The first mostly produces better off road performance, the second mostly produces better on road performance.

 

I should have been more clear. I agree the nose can still dive, but I notice a difference in the rebound with KDSS.

 

For future readers of this thread, I wanted to clarify something that is a generalization that might be misleading.

While I'm no where near hardcore, I've wheeled with some. One of them was even on an Ultimate Adventure and knows Fred and Dave if you know who I'm talking about, although I question his embellishments at times... Most actual hardcare offroaders know low Center of Gravity (COG) is key, and therefore big lifts are mostly for show. Cutting fenders is how you fit big tires low COG builds. Get out them saws.....

That said, no one is buying a 4Runner for hardcore wheeling without doing a SAS. And doing a SAS to a 5th gen is a bit of a waste of a perfectly good vehicle, but that's just my opinion.

That said, one close friend SASed his 2006 2nd Gen Tacoma, put 40's on it, and Atlas, and it's got about 6" of lift. He and I agree it's a bit too high. We gotta lower the body.

TLDR: There are almost no scenarios in which lifting more than 3" is warranted on a 5th Gen 4Runner. If you're doing that, it's likely for some other reason than functionality and therefore KDSS doesn't matter. I don't have KDSS and don't really care if I have it, but it really shouldn't be a limiting factor of your build because when you are at the limits of KDSS, you're at the limits of a reasonable build. If you want to go more, SAS it.

 

Lifting a KDSS equipped 4R should be done at a good shop IMO, so you won't damage anything. Since its a dealer only repair it would be a pain in the A**. Dealers would love to blame on other things to clean your wallet.

I too prefer no KDSS + smooth suspension setup.

 

Lifting period may cause issues. We all know that.

Pay to play.

 

Plenty of us have lifted them ourselves no problem. It adds a little difficulty, but it's doable.

This makes me wonder about Accutune more than anything. Maybe they just say that to avoid liability. I wouldn't trust a shop that doesn't know how to deal with KDSS.

 

Some of these anti-KDSS comments are pretty funny.

 

Of cause, didn't meant to say its not doable. Just be careful with KDSS.

 

I was strongly considering getting KDSS when I order but then I read that they cost a lot of money to repair if there are issues. I plan to keep my 4R for 20 years I hope and two dealers advised against it saying the maint costs would get to me at $2-3k if it goes out?

 

Sound about right..

 

well at least I got this beast of a thread going again ha!

Some folks Excuse you!

 

Can KDSS be removed? In the future I would want to get rid of the swaybar for more flex. The FJ Cruiers with swaybara removed have some impressive flex

 

I don't think it can be easily completely removed, or it would perpetually have an error light for the system missing. most guys that have removed it use ratchet straps to hold the piston in place after removing the actual sway bar. I don't think you would gain that much more flex unless you have a long travel setup, and the loss of on road manners is not worth the small gain.

 

Anything can be modded, and if it’s a purpose built rig only driven at low speeds off road and you need maximum articulation, why not? However if it’s a daily driver, it will certainly affect vehicle handling at driving speeds, especially high speed manoeuvring. In the case of an accident, God forbid, such a mod could be seen as complicit negligence, and the legal consequences would also flow from that.

 

Yeah, you don't want to be driving fast with no sway bar. That's why our kdss, and the Wrangler's sway bar disconnect, automatically connect when you go over a certain speed, I think it's like 15 mph or something

 

It’s funny hearing folks complain about KDSS! Some of those fortunate enough to have this option on their 4 Runners seem unaware that it is a great system, and a feature of the latest LCs and new Lexus. I’m grateful to have it in my 2018 OR, and it has given me not one iota of trouble going on my 6th year. I appreciate it more for extra high speed stability than off road articulation but it produces both without any intervention. It’s perfect.

 

Exactly! Same here

 

I am interested to see how kdss does on the ramp vs. a 4Runner that has its sway bar completely removed

 

I am assuming my kdss is disconnected here. But then there's no way to find out for sure if it is disconnected or not. I mean the driver has no control of it.

 

KDSS automatically engages >12mph. The system is good and I think it is a good way to get offroad and onroad handling if mildly lifted or modded. once you get to extreme modding/LT etc it becomes a hindrance. It also proves to be less reliable if you really offroad with it and give the system a workout.

When I bought my new ORP in 2018 i test drove one with KDSS and one without. I ended up getting one without it because I read about reliability issues especially when lifted, though it did feel a lot better on the highway. My friend bought a 2019 with KDSS and a lift. At 30k miles his KDSS piston seal blew and toyota said it was a $3k repair. Luckily because he bought the lift package from the dealer they covered the repair but they said they would only do it the one time as a courtesy.

 

Happened to me too. Test drove the both versions of the 4Runner, and the difference was super obvious. Did some very aggreessive cornering when I was stock and it impressed. Fingers crossed I won't blow it on the trail

 

IMHO, Pros with the Fox shocks are more suited for faster off road speeds absorbing hits on uneven surfaces, whereas the Off Roads are not. KDSS is just variable sway bar(s) and stiffen at higher speeds then essentially disconnects at under 12mph, more suited for the slow stuff.
Actual articulation test.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ueshf401B0k&pp=ygULS2RzcyB0cmF2ZWw=

 

I watched this, not helpful because he is testing it on GX. GX and LC KDSS seem superior flex wise to our 4Runners KDSS

 

Tie it down and it will make it home. ITS A TOYOTA. It will make sure to bring you back home
(Pic from our local group)

 

KDSS has been available in the Toyota/Lexus lineup for 20 years, how many failures have you seen it that time?