How important is the V6 long term value?

personally, i would pick an na engine over a fi engine every time if i wanted longevity. prior to my 4runner i had 3 different audis, S3, S4 and an A6 and replaced them as soon as the warranty expired.

 

Hey, its me!! hahaha

I ran two Ram 3500's well past 250,000km's with no engine related issues whatsoever, including the turbo. But in the same breath, I had 2 turbo Subaru's that had engine issues...so now I'm suspicious of turbo gasers. I've known people with the same subaru's, with the same engine sans turbo, that had no issues. Was the turbo to blame? I don't think so, necessarily...but sort of. I guess if an engine is built robustly (like the bigger diesels) with turbo charging and high power baked into the design and engineering, it won't have an issue. If you just take a normal engine and reduce compression a little so you can blow air into it, problems tend to show up.

So, I'm really hoping Toyota built these from the ground up to be turbo engines, and in 10 years we will be seeing 6th gen Runners with 250,000+ km's on them trouble free. I've always been a fan of the low pressure turbo philosophy...enough boost to overcome some of the inherent inefficiency of the big air pump under the hood, add a bit of power, and account for elevation so power when I'm driving in the mountains (all the time) is the same as at sea level.

But to your point, I really do think this is a hold over from the good-ol'-days of turbo charging, and the few fairly specific failures we've seen in a few specific newer vehicles. And likely most issues are from the aforementioned not treating it right, and not being maintenance minded (many turbo owners I knew never looked at their dipstick until the low oil light came on). Turbo timers wouldn't be a bad idea, but would likely affect their CAFE rating, so we probably won't see that. Same with a pyrometer in the dash, from factory.

 

turbodiesels we’re built to a 2:1 safety margin with mechanical fueling and low compression with a 4K redline.

that’s the old days, modern diesels are just as bad which is why people pay through the nose for 7.3 power strokes and old Cummins dodge trucks

 

Has F150 gone down in quality and is no longer the long lasting and reliable truck? It still sells like hotcakes but has become super complex.

 

it’s a turd.

 

That's what my wife says about my ORP. "Look, it says so right there" (on the pillar badge).

 

Lol that’s succinct.

 

Funny thing is none of them are willing to admit that you get power OR mpg, not both. It takes fuel to make power. The 3.5 Ecoboost gets worse towing mpg than the 5.0 in the F150...and barely better under normal conditions (in the real world).

My buddy has a new Tundra, it gets 1mpg better than his old Tundra (which I think was a 2019.)

 

Maybe not both at the same time. But, that's not the right expectation. The idea is that it will get better fuel economy in regular driving, and have the ability to make more power when it's needed.

According to fuelly.com, the 2.7 gets about 10% better fuel economy, which is significant. It also makes the same as much torque 1100 RPM's sooner, which is also significant. Edit: as compared to the 5.0.

 

I understand it but that isn't generally the way they market it nor is it the way most people see it (or the way most people drive). My buddy is disappointed with the mpg his tundra gets but he's got a heavy foot. Enthusiast type people get it and understand that it's an either/or but the average joe is gonna expect both at the same time.

As for the 2.7, yup, it makes nice torque at low rpm but its the 3.5 that's generally compared to the 5.0. (as a side note, unless they've changed it...and they may have, it's been a while since I looked...the 2.7 F150's have a lower GVWR than the 5.0 and 3.5 Ecoboosts, it's a big reason why I did not get one, I was looking for more payload). For 2021, the 3.5 is slightly worse mpg than the 5.0 (within the margin of error though).

 

For a 20MPG that is 5% improvement. I am sure tundra had much lower mpg than that, so increase in mpg is not insignificant.
They are reducing engine sizes not for power, not for better fuel economy but for epa asking oems to reduce emissions. One way to do that is just have lesser engine, and say -- look! 5 liter engine is now 2 liter engine, we did it!! Needless to say, a way to still get the power is add turbos. And most folks would use the vehicle a bit more aggressively -- because they have more power. So it ends up being a wash, or not as much savings as you'd expect from reducing the engine size.

 

He was getting about 15mpg, now about 16mpg so a ~7% increase). Window sticker was something like 21 combined.

Honestly, I've changed my driving habits since trading my F150 for a 4runner and I'm getting about the same mpg as the F150 even though I drive slower and accelerate slower. Not gonna lie, the 5.0 in the F150 was fun (and the 2.7 and 3.5 ecoboosts are both quicker)...

 

Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing how the 2.4 pans out for the 4Runner in real world use. As you mentioned, a lot of it will come down to driving style. But, just because a lot of people won't realize the potential doesn't mean it's not a good thing.

It looked like the 3.5 was very similar to the 5.0 for fuel economy, while delivering more power. I suppose it comes down to personal need and preference. But, it's cool to have options. My brother had leased a 2.7 F150 and just bought it out, so it seems like he's satisfied with it.

I can totally understand why some folks would rather have a proven, simple drivetrain. There's definitely value in the confidence that your vehicle is not likely to break down or leave you stranded.

 

To be fair, the 2.7 is a cosworth design not a ford design like the 3.5

the issue is just the sheer number of lines/actuators/sensors that are required to work in perfect harmony, plus the fact that turbos require more care and oil attention yet people take less care of their cars than ever….

There’s no way around the complexity of modern turbos because of emissions, if you had a simple cast iron manifold external waste gate setup that runs 8:1 compression like the 80s then sure…. But now it’s a whole different ballgame.

long live the 2860 “disco potato”

 

Same gotta buy them before they ruin it

 

I can agree about wanting simplicity. But, I don't know that they're going to "ruin it."

Sure, the reliability of the new drivetrain is unknown at this point. But, based on the new Tacoma and GX, it seems possible that the 6th gen could end up being better in other ways.

 

I know they arent going to “ruin” it, but it’s obvious that this is the last generation for a 4.0 v6. 4cylinder turbo with auto start stop is probably coming next. Add a battery on top of that and it starts getting complex. Kinda loses the 4runner roots.

 

If anyone can do it, its toyota.
If they move it out of tahara plant in my mind, that would be a negative. At this point we are all speculating -- and with a purchase this year, I am putting more trust in current MY than redesign. But I can be 100% wrong and they can make it better than g5 in every way!

 

Yeah, that's correct. But, even though some people aren't going to be happy about the drivetrain, it might make up for it in other ways.

I just hope that the auto stop/start can be defeated, as it's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of.

 

It’s probably gonna have the same exact transmission and engine options as the 4th gen Tacoma.

 

whoever first thought auto start stop default was a good idea needs a slap on the face.

 

current gen tacoma does not have same engine as 4R IIRC. So why would next gen be any different?

 

I was passenger in a car with auto start stop this weekend and that thing was not smooth when it turned itself back on. You could feel a rough shake everytime it restarted itself from a dead stop. It was pretty annoying actually .

 

The past ones have shared engines. Plus the 4runner hasnt had a redesign in a long time.

 

I'd be fine if my setting was persistent. I hate that I have to stop it every time.

 

Dont they make stuff you can buy to shut it off permanently? Thats what i would do if i owned an auto start stop vehicle

 

Well, I would
I was talking about new rentals I have had in past couple of years, all of them had that stupid auto off.