Hate to admit it, but the Ranger Raptor will destroy Taco/4R TRD Pro/Trailhunter sales

All frames are prone to rust.

 

Yes, a coat of paint every year in rust prone areas would be the ticket, or getting the fluid film spray done every few years, its like a mastic tar coating that keeps the salt from getting to the steel.
Problem is, the dip Toyota uses on the frames always chips and cracks around the welds. This is where the coating on the frame is split open, and the bare steel is exposed. Road salt on bare steel = nightmare. Some people in the rust belt dont know any better, plan to trade in, or simply dont care. I would bet 80%+ of the vehicles sold in the rust belt never get anything added to the frames aside from whats stock. While the undercoatings, sprays, rust converters, specialized paints are a big business, i would bet there is a small minority of the vehicles / owners who actually do it. I bought a pristine and i mean like unicorn 1st gen Tundra, every picture was perfect, all of the pictures of the frame they sent were perfect, mileage was so low it was hard to imagine, paint was freakin out of this world, interior was spotless, the truck was mint condition from every single picture i asked for and received. It was from Kentucky and the owner hung around cincinnati for work. I knew it was close to the rust belt and likely saw road salts but the pictures looked good and the vin check showed it had the Toyota applied coating done for the recall at 30,000 miles. Pictures looked great so i bought it and had it shipped to me. It had a soft tonneau and a plastic drop in bedliner. I pulled the soft tonneau off as soon as i got it in the driveway and pulled the drop in plastic liner out and my heart sank.... There were 4-5 holes in the bed the size of a basketball. All the critical areas in the inside of the frame, frame stiffener, all rusted to hell. The toyota applied stuff was likely on the outside exterior frame rails where you can see when you look under the truck. Once you got under the truck and looked at the inside of the frame rails it was SO SO bad. Every heat shield had rusted off, tailpipe hangers were rusted thru, trans crossmember rotted half way thru, differential was rusted thru and had rust pin holes in it.
This was a 75,000 mile truck an old man had and kept it polished like new. He apparently had the toyota recall coating done and assumed it was good. Old man passed away and his kids traded the Tundra in on a new vehicle for themselves. Yes, if you live in a rust prone area with road salts you better stay on top of the frame rust, because if not you are going to have a vehicle rot out underneath you.

 

It’s because all the cool things that happened in the past aren’t on the tiktok, so how could anybody know they existed for anyone to remember?

 

You might want to try to tell that to all the Jeep owners who are cashing out heads and cams and rocker arms? Its so much of a common problem, my local dealer keeps all the parts in stock to fix it.
I had a friend with a 2016ish Jeep Grand Cherokee, wiped out a cam and rockers at 78,000 miles, dealer was able to somehow get it warrantied for them. 25,000 miles later right at 100,000 it did it again and the repair bill was going to be like $4,000 so they traded it in on the spot. Apparently its so common at my local dealer, they decided keeping parts in stock, and getting the vehicle in and out within 2 days was the best way to keep things going.

 

2016 was 8 years ago. I am talking new ones, 2018+

 

What is tiktok?

 

OMG that sucks!! I have spent my entire life in that 80+%, I only recently gave any thought at all about the integrity (and preventative protection) of a vehicle’s frame. Which sounds insane when you say it out loud!! Because it seems like it should be the first thing that a person thinks about, but like you said people just don’t think about it. I only began to think about it because 4Runner talk led me into the scary subject of the “Achilles Heel” of the 4Runner…rust. Now…my reaction to anybody talking about buying a used car is “Get it on the lift for a frame inspection!!!”

I have a place picked out that looks very impressive, they have a premium level procedure (that they recommend for new vehicles) where they take a lot of things off including the wheels, and go to town with an oil based treatment. And my favorite part is that they do NOT punch holes into anything like many undercoating places do (maybe that’s controversial and some people want that, but not me). After that they recommend a yearly follow up procedure that’s not as intense (but many people do every other year).

 

My wife had a 2020 Grand Cherokee Limited X, and at 40,000 the rockers started rattling pretty bad on start-up so we got rid of it ASAP after knowing what happened to others around us.

 

Chinese spy software, they use AI to scrub every video and with geolocate data, they build a model of every building, room, and floor inside a building using the background image in videos. They also look for any info they can from pictures on walls, memos on bulletin boards, open screens on computers. They marketed it as somthing cool and hip for kids to use and share funny vids but its ackshually spy software.

 

Now you are making this up lol

 

We traded it in to CarMax on a sunday after the top end started rattling on a Saturday at 44,000 miles. i can find receipts if you need.

 

It came with 60,000 mile warranty, didn't you know that?

 

yep and the local dealer had parts in stock but i wasnt keeping it long enough to get stuck in it

 

They're all right, every single body on frame Toyota is going to have frame rust issues.

 

Hey boss good chat, i gotta catch you next time i was supposed to be home an hour ago.
Gotta run.

 

I don’t know what’s worse, the pop culture references in the first few posts that I don’t get or the endless “anybody who is anybody”


I see lots of posts lately that make me feel like an old gray hair but this one has to be the best yet…

 

Break doesn’t mean dead. Broken things can be fixed.

 

Junk yard is full of things that can be fixed, yet there they sit until getting crushed.

For example, I had Subaru that was an oil burner. It was fixed under warranty - the fix was new short block. Later, there was a class action settlement that extended warranty for that issue, so I actually had that done TWICE as it started burning oil for the second time. I had it fixed under warranty again and sold it.

Is disposable engine block and complete engine tear down to fix it reasonable or is it a design flaw? Don't answer that, it is a rhetorical question.

 

OK, so here's my thoughts on rust. Sorry I don't speak tiktok so this is from the grey matter between my gray hairs....

My previous vehicle 2014 2nd gen Tacoma. I bought it new, and traded it in when I got my '23 Runner. The frame rust issue is a very real thing, I got one of the recall campaigns on mine.. summer of 2021 I brought it in and the dealer had it for a few days to do an inspection - it passed, and they did an internal coating on the forward box section and added new plugs to seal up most of the openings forward of the transmission. I live in the snowbelt but I'm lucky in that the truck has always been garaged - both at home and at my office, I put relatively low miles on it and I had fluid filmed it a couple times over the years.

I have friends who a re not so lucky, one buddy of mine went though 2 total frame replacements on Tacomas. First was a full buyback and trade for a new truck. Then the frame on that one failed and thy did a full replacement - it was at the dealer for a couple months and he said it never quite felt right after.

Rust is the devil when it comes to old cars... and its not just a matter of "enough undercoating" All it takes is one little spot where the paint wears off at a frequent flex or rubbing pint for it to start and then it can spread internally under the paint for a long time before you see anything. The rusting frames are not rusting becuase they don't use enough paint, its because of poor design choices that created places for water to get trapped internally in the box section and not drain, or layered reinforcement plates that where not fully welded sealed that let water wick in between metal plates and get trapped, etc. Religious paint touch up and coatings like fluid film can keep the worm at bay for a long time but it doesn't fix the underlying cause.


Many of you young guys don't remember what it was like to drive old beater used cars in the 80s, 90s and prior when the unibodies rusted out. I got a lot of experience with bondo in the high school and college but no matter how much you fixed once it started it just kept coming back and coming back. Rocker panels and the front seat floor panels behind the wheel wells where the worst. I remember cars I could put my foot though the floor and bondo was useless we ended up wither having sheetmetal welded in or it was time to use fiberglass patch with that metal screen reinforcement stuff they sold in a kit.

The reason we don't see that today is not because paint got better (its actually worse now that they phased out oil based enamels) - its because the bodies are all dip galvanized before painting. Honda stated doing this in the mid 90s and everybody else followed over the years. Honestly I don't know why they wont dip truck frames as well - it would solve this.



Or how about rusted exhaust? Who remembers having to change the muffler every 50k because it rusted a hole though it? Their used to be a Mineke Discount Muffler on every corner. Far fewer of them today and they dropped "muffler" from the name. Why? Because even cheap economy cars have stainless steel exhaust now and they last the life of the car.

 

The sad part is that they could have spent slightly more on materials and selected steel that is more resistant to rust and this wouldn't have been an issue.

Probably due to environmental requirements. It would solve the issue if done after welding. but prior to painting.

 

More resistant, yes - but not perfect. You are never going to build a frame form stainless steel for example because the alloying elements that give it corrosion resistance (nickel, zinc, chromium) also soften the alloy.

For a laymans example - ever notice how your "stainless steel" kitchen knives get rust spots in the dishwasher? But the forks and spoons don't? Its because they use a lower grade of stainless in the knives, the high stainless are not hard enough to hold a sharpened edge well.

I still question why they dont do dip galvanizing (essentially zinc electroplating) like with bodies.

 

My guess after examining frame on my brand new 4Runner while crawling under it with a can of Fluid Film is that they weld frame from already painted rails and then spot-paint over welds (poorly so). I found spots of exposed metal on my frame around welds. So they can't dip galvanize because you need exposed metal for that. This really does not live up to Toyota quality expectations.

 

Everyone has different experiences.

I do agree with what you’re saying though. I just like to play devils advocate. Reliability has always been Toyota’s strong suit for the most part, I just find it funny that there’s a lot of young folks on the interwebs that have only owned Toyotas and will instantly and blindly shit on any brand that isn’t Toyota.

 

Agreed. I still think Toyota is overall the most reliable brand. But, they're not infallible. And, if other brands were really as bad as some folks imply, those companies would be out of business.

 

You get what you pay for. Hopefully. If you trade or like working on vehicles then Ranger Raptor might be okay. I doubt very high production will result. The dealers will piss everyone off overpricing. Ranger probably one of their better products. I don't expect to see many 20+ year old Ranger Raptors at the red light. Unless low mileage garage kept. To much power in 4wd leads to problems. Torque is more important.

 

and also as I said before, a lot of people don't put reliability in the forefront. That's why F150 and F150 Raptor sales have been strong. We only bitch and moan about reliability because we have one of the most bulletproof reliable Toyotas ever built and we're also car guys so we know our shit when it comes to this. The average consumer doesn't, we're a minority.

 

I fail to understand why F150 is the best selling truck in US? American consumer is fickle, and if they consistently do not get the quality there are options besides F150. I am guessing part of it is because for what it gives, its still considered "a good deal". Yes it may break more often, but maybe the company takes care of all catastrophic issues under warranty. So you own till its new and then get rid of it for.....a shiny new F150? At least that is my take of it, it still is a poor financial decision to own such a truck.

Or maybe I am completely wrong, with my toyota fanboy blinders, and F150 is overall a great, reliable truck!

 

Then tell me good sir, how long is forever?

 

I don't understand paying $50k for Pro and changing everything. I learned to buy used and chips, scratches I just get over and upgrades make sense. They all do the same thing in a little different way with 4wd system and suspension difference. I think people who don't know believe a Pro or ORP will give them more abilities. I will wave at them from my Limited doing same thing with fewer buttons. $8500 4runner will go everywhere a $50k one will. With A-trac what's the point. I need a RAV4 TRD Pro. TRD is a marketing platform making you pay for it. TRD on everything now. I will wait for 4runner GR. Next big thing

 

Agreed. It doesn't make a lot of sense to buy the most expensive trim and then replace all of the things that really set it apart from the lower trims.

The one real advantage the off-road trims have is the locker. A-TRAC is fantastic, but it does not replace a locker. The other features are cool, and I'm sure they have their purpose. But, I could live without them.

I think the PRO is perfect for people who don't want to modify their vehicles, and only plan mild to moderate off-road use. The SR5 is the best clean slate for serious builds. And, the OR is in the middle.