Hate to admit it, but the Ranger Raptor will destroy Taco/4R TRD Pro/Trailhunter sales

Found On Road Dead
They didn't get this name by being reliable.

And a 10 speed transmission. Not a fan...

Toyota has been working on super cost effective options like ther $10,000 pickup, but the playing field is becoming more level.

 

It’s the colors..

a used pro with beat up suspension is literally just down to some cheesy stick on accessories, with a terrible exhaust You’d have to pay to remove

 

... and yet Ford trucks are #1 in sales. You have to realize, I can guarantee that at least 90% of car buyers aren't car guys like we are in these forums. Most buyers buy based on practicality, coolness factor, and of course price. Looking at it from these perspectives, the Ranger Raptor is a HUGE winner in my eyes. Most Ford buyers turn a blind eye to the reliability factor.

 

But the resale is ridiculous and they always sell out

 

Dunno… I don’t want to intentionally spend more to get a worser vehicle ‍

 

They usually sell out quick because people are stupid and make incredibly stupid financial decisions all the time for functionless trim level stuff like badging or some stupid ass feature. Car dealers know this and it’s why they get away with marking shit up. It’s what keeps them in business, it’s what kept the 3 dealerships my grandfather owned in business for 60 years.

Resale price is not reflective of resale value. If you paid $60k for a TRD Pro and 2 years later you decide to trade it in and dealer offers you $49k that an $11k loss from what you paid. Let’s say you purchased a TRD ORP for $50k and after 2 years you decide to trade it and the dealer offers you $39k, it’s the same amount of devaluation just a different number. You are only seeing higher resale numbers on the Pro because it is a higher initial cost. Ask me how I know this!

 

The 10 speed trans is amazing. The 10R80 Ford uses in the F150 and Mustangs is the same transmission GM is using. The Fords are just tuned better from the factory. My “around town” mustang is FBO and tuned by PB Dyno and is pushing 477rwhp and still gets 24 mpg on the highway at 80mph. My Lexus IS500 F Sport with the 5.0 and 8 speed trans gets about 17mpg on the highway at 80mph. The 2 extra gears make a lot of difference in economy without sacrificing the ability to get up and move, quickly.

 

This is the only thing you got right

Hate to have to say this again but
Anyone who is anyone remembers October 2007 when Toyota announced they were working on superchargers for the 1GR-FE
Anyone who is anyone also remembers when Grapevine Toyota got the MAP price list in December 2007 and listed them for sale on their website and sold like 100 the first day. I was one of them, i bought one, before i even ordered my truck. After ordering the supercharger i then went to the dealer and ordered the perfect truck for it. In January my order went thru for a 2008 white TRD Sport 4door double cab prerunner
Toyota offered these superchargers and dealer reflashes and had the tundra making 500hp and the Tacoma and 4Runner 1gr making 300+
I put the first 10,000 miles on my truck bone stock and then took it to the dealer for the supercharger install. As long as it was installed by the dealer, you kept your full factory warranty. I beat the living brakes off that thing for the first 50,000 miles of its life. I pulled trailers for work daily and raced it every weekend at the strip or street races. That truck went 13.1@103mph at hub city dragway in Hatteisburg Ms and had a factory warranty. Not only did i beat on it like a rented mule, i kept it for 11 years and put 275,000 miles on it.
I never touched the timing chains
i never touched the trans or changed the oil in it
i never touched the rear end or changed the oil in it (yes the limited slip was wore out and starting to slip around 220,000 miles)
i sold that truck and it truck is still running around town today. After a pulley, ported lower, long tubes, full exhaust, and the factory toyota reflash i made 330whp. It would pull a 1.6sec 60ft on the street and strip. I had a set of rear leaf springs, and with the stock bridgestones and Limited slip, that thing would cut a light like you hadnt seen a truck do on the street. It outran so many mustangs, camaros, trucks, it would hurt a 12second cars feelings on the street because it cut a light, stuck to the ground, didnt spin, and hauled ass. I would jump 2 cars out on a mustang and he couldnt run me down unless he was a perfect driver and got off the line good. Not only did i beat it, race it, it was dependable and i absolutely loved it.
I have had at least 4 Toyotas that i drove over 200,000 miles without touching them
I have a 2008 Urban Runner 4runner now i daily drive with 230,000 on it, i have had it since 2008 and the only thing i have done is put an alternator on it because the dummies at the oil change place dont put a catch can under the oil filter and dump the oil filter oil all in the alternator. Other than that its on stock wheel bearings, stock ball joints, stock trans, stock rear end, stock engine, nothing has been touched. The 2008 tacoma was the same way, i didnt have to do anything honestly on it either other than the mods i put on it.

 

BMW Nikasil block issues, BMW VANOs, Ford DPS6 transmission issues, Audi FSI carbon buildup issue, Subaru head gasket issues, etc.. Or 4Runner frame rust issue.

These are expensive or impossible to fix faults that occur on a car that is not being abused that likely leads to premature scrapping.

Bathtub curve sets up expectations, when Mean Time To Failure are off due to a single-cause failure, then you have a flawed design.

 

The Ranger Raptor is going to be $55k for very few people.

They charge you an extra $500 for choosing a red one and an extra $1000 for the blue/gray version.

The non-standard wheels were an extra $1500. Bedliner was $500.

It'll $60-65k for most.

 

This, i agree with, and this is why i say i hate that they are going to the turbo 4cyl. This is for the same reason i hate they did a turbo V6 in the tundra. Toyota, and every other manufacturer is searching for better fuel economy not only as a marketing ploy to sell more units, but also because the EPA is being much more stringent on fuel economy numbers and they are all trying to meet them. The testers are going to be dedicated testers, know how to drive, can be light footed because they dont have anywhere to be, and are always testing in perfect conditions to maximize fuel mileage. The numbers they are trying to reach, even if its only 1mpg better than a comparable larger displacement engine, the bean counters are always going to go with whatever has the lowest overall cost and highest MPG. Doing all these changes hoping for better fuel mileage isnt working, because in real world scenarios people are not in the perfect realm, unloaded, downhill, wind at your back, they are pulling loads, larger tires, heavy footed at red lights in a hurry to get to work or the kid to baseball practice ect ect. I have owned an incredible amount of vehicles in my life and i absolutely love the Cummins in the Ram trucks, i have had two as dedicated pull trucks and love them for many reasons and driving one you see and understand all sorts of things. Unloaded, on the highway, cruise set at 70mph with stock tires its basically never in boost unless you hit a hill. Running minimal to no load, not accelerating, no inclines, off boost you are getting 28-30mpg. This looks awesome until you climb a hill and your instant mpg falls to 11. No big deal, your average works out to like 20-22mpg per tank unloaded and things are freaking wonderful. You start to see things change as your load changes, flat bed trailer and an ATV is practically nothing, no real drag, you can average 16-17mpg with it. Same flat bed with a car on it, wind drag is minimal with the car behind you, you can average 14-16mpg. You start seeing real changes when you put a tractor with cab on it, wind drag increases, fuel mileage drops to about 12-14. Then you swap over to an enclosed 24ft car hauler with 7ft interior ceilings and a flat front wall. Wind drag is immense and you are running 20psi of boost to maintain 70mph on the highway and any time you hit a hill or incline you are full boost 32psi to climb a hill and your fuel mileage averages about 8-9mpg.

This is what the tiny 4cyl is going to be like when you want to put 32x11" tires on your 4runner. You are going to increase the load to a point where the engine is under load to maintain highway speeds and you are going to be in boost all the time just cruising. You wont ever get the 22mpg the window sticker claims, you are going to get 12-16 at best. This is the same thing with the new v6 turbo tundra. You are running the absolute crap out of them to pull a light aluminum camper trailer with a flat front wall. The wind resistance is immense and you are screaming at full boost to maintain 70mph on the highway and the v6 turbo tundra is getting 9-10mpg pulling a 3500lb single axle camper. I dont like tiny engines and turbos trying to get fuel economy, you always end up with the engine always struggling and always end up with poorer fuel economy than a standard sized NA engine.

If they were real smart, they would run a larger V8 in the tundra with a tiny turbo, only build 4-6psi of boost with a tiny turbo, zero lag, zero spool time, it would feel like a larger NA engine and have the fuel economy of a V6. The bean counters always go for the smaller engine, because it cost less. I personally feel the engine in the new tacoma and 4R will be dependable, however i also feel it will be overloaded and in boost more than it should be and run far less fuel mileage than they claim in real world conditions with people wanting larger tires.

 

They go for a premium and they sell out. That's just the facts

 

I think the Ranger Raptor competes more directly with the Tacoma than the 4R. I wasn't interested in a pickup when I was buying, and I probably won't be in the future. That aside, I've ridden in my share of old, beat-up Rangers and always thought well of them.

 

yes a low volume trim sells out. It costs more due to the additional bolt on accessories included

 

But honestly when I was looking into a new off-roader, I was cross-shopping between the Taco, Frontier, 4R, Wrangler, and even though it was more expensive even the PowerWagon was on the list. I wasn't a "I MUST have a 4R or else" type. Just saying, cross-shopping will happen A LOT more if a RR costs $10k less than a I4 4R TRD Pro/Trailhunter, and I'm only basing this on the choice between V6 and I4 and price.

 

All I need to know about FORD is:

Found On Road Dead
Fix Or Repair Daily
F’in Owner’s Really Dumb

I bought a new FORD once and that was one time too many. An F150 pickup.

P.O.S. had a habit of spitting its spark plugs out of the engine.

FORD? NO THANKS.

 

Anyone who is anyone? Is this the new hip saying? Already becoming a broken record.

Word up

 

Raptor's biggest problem is that it is a stinking Ford. If I were to buy a midsize it would absolutely be the Gladiator. Tacoma costs too.

 

Buddy's Suburban has been running solid at almost 300k miles, except it is on 4th transmission. Do four transmissions come under "Proper maintenance"? He has been really maintaining his beloved Suburban

 

Apparently they are cheap and easy enough to replace so... yep!

 

You misspelled Tacoma.

 

If you don't go offorad you can get a full size for $65,000, Cummins, Duramax, you name it. Even Tundra

 

You’re not wrong. All brands are not created equal, but I can tell you Nissan hasn’t been in its good years since the early to mid 90’s. My grandfather sold his Nissan dealership in 03 because of continuous manufacturer quality issues and some other stuff on the Nissan USA corporate side with warranty payouts, etc. His Ford and Toyota dealerships were cash cows though. Ford has had its problems, but they are on the up and up. I have never had a single problem with any of my Ford trucks or cars, even when I had the 5.4 Triton engine F150. Of course, I only buy the V8’s. I won’t touch the V6 or 4 cyl motors. GM had its good years with the 3800 V6 and then LS motors came and they’ve had their ups and downs as well. When all these regulations started getting put in place, the engines having to be tweaked to meet those regs hurt a lot of the US manufacturers. The cost of these newer power plants is causing other areas to see lesser quality to keep the vehicles aligned with their consumer base. Hell, my 23 F150 Lariat FX4 with the 5.0 MSRP’d at $78k (thank God I don’t have to pay that price) and I’ve had to have a couple of minor trim things warrantied. There was a point in time that I’m sure many of us can remember where a $70k vehicle was nice AF and there weren’t little annoying issues right off the lot.

My 22 4R had 6 things that had to be warranty repaired when it came off the truck. One was the windshield because it had cracked in transit, the others were cosmetic interior and exterior trim things.

Toyota has had its ups and downs just like every other manufacturer. Remember the 2nd Gen 4R and the latest version of the Celica? Talk about turds. The 3rd gen Tacoma wasn’t a shining star mechanically for Toyota. Tons of issues with valve trains, high pressure fuel pumps, crank position sensors, and cracking body structure, especially in the radiator support. My 3rd gen Tacoma burnt the whole left side valve train at 54k miles. I personally feel like the 4th gen Tacoma and 6th Gen 4R are gonna be Toyotas down years and the gens to follow will get the better Lexus stuff as they progress on to something better.

 

It falls under bad unit. It’s not a design flaw. My copilot has an 07 Suburban that he refuses to get rid of because he says it’s been reliable as hell.

 

Man, be careful, I got seriously shit on by the 6th gen fanbois for saying almost the exact same thing on a different thread.

 

Maybe if people had a memory longer than a ticktock reel they could remember what the past was like and remember all the cool things that have happened in the world. However there are brand loyal "yay'hoos" who like to bash everyone else and have no recollection of the past, all they are here for is to stir crap up.

 

Both of you misspelled 1st gen Tundra

 

Aren’t “Rust Prone” vehicles easily countered by just getting underbody rust protection procedures done to them? That’s my first order of business if I buy this new 4Runner…from what I’ve read that’s the only thing to fear (AND only if you are exposed to salted roads due to snow).

 

Please make up your mind, from above you wrote: “Any machine, if maintained properly will last forever.”
So, which is it, last “forever” or eventually break?

 

NA V6 fans. The next most ancient V6 after our 4.0L is the 3.6L Pentastar V6. All its issues have been resolved and it is a pretty good motor in its current form. Get that in the Gladiator before it is gone. Great deals on Gladiators and Rams going on right now.