Fed up with parking brake!!!

I think it didnt turn easy because it wasnt in neutral. It was hard to turn even with the rotor off, but once I put it in neutral, it became easier to turn…and it was turning the driveshaft too.

but now the other side is hard to turn even in neutral, and with the shoes all the way retracted. Hmmm. Does the transfer case need to be in neutral too?

 

The rotor had some mud in it…. The shoe surface looks pretty shitty… maybe mud somehow blocked the pads from touching??? Seems weird because the adjuster is doing its thing fine.

 

Youtube history, Bro! https://www.youtube.com/feed/history

 

Lol dont have utube account, and it keeps feeding me related videos that arent it. Im like a cat with a chasing a laser light on a wall. Either way, found my way back to it.

 

Umm yes it needs to be in neutral. Guessing it wasn't in N last adjustment so those pads must be really loose.

Adjust it in N and I bet it holds like it should.

Pads are fine I've seen worse hold good.

 

losing my mind trying to put a pad back in caliper lol. But so far a dry fit seems to show the shoes adjust ok.

any idea the other side is still hard to turn?

 

well my 2016 runner had the parking brake with the hill area ...then the parking brake did move the 4runner .. then the pedal did a heavy foot pedal and it was the rear ... back !!!

the 4runner is 4700 lbs ....and my other vehicles did the parking brake pads bigger stronger .... front/rear stopped my other vehicles ..
my 2000 GM truck and my 20 ft boat 4000 lbs ... parking brake works good ..........on the boat ramp in sea port ...

 

Lord help anyone relying on 4runner parking brake on a boat ramp!!!

Good thing the parking pawl is pretty beefy and wont break with the weight of a boat pulling it back. Probably.

Time for a test drive.

 

I was just going to ask about a boat ramp. Heck you have to set that break obviously while in park. But still.


I will have 2k lbs behind me and after this fear the thing will run me over while winching boat on trailer.

Dows anyone else have experience at ramp with a boat and these issues? Should I take mine to dealer before towing next spring ?

i have a set of wheel chocks I tied to a roo for my old Explorer did not think I’d need with a new $45k rig but maybe so dang

 

It’s the damn drum in disc design. They dont get used for real world braking like old school rear drums, so they dont bed in well. And they are smaller, so less “leverage”. Throw in bad adjustment, and you have yourself a useless safety feature.

The 4runner does seem to suffer more from losing it’s adjustment than my old 2006 Sienna or current 2018 Highlander. But once it’s adjusted well, it performs like any other drum in disc…marginally lol.

I would say to test it out yourself before the boat ramp. If it doesnt hold the vehicle on a slight incline,
you could try having the dealer adjust it under warranty.

 

Back from my test drive. I adjusted both sides with the star wheel. But I didnt get a chance to clean out the other drum. In either case, they are performing as well as they were after my first adjustment a few months after I bought it.

They are now performing to their maximum mediocre potential. It holds the vehicle in place, in neutral, on the same slight incline it couldnt manage earlier today. So, it's a definitive improvement.

I think the reason the adjustment felt weird at first, is that I had previously hosed then whole area out, hoping to clear mud out. I did get some out, but not all. When I tried to adjust the star, I think it had a weird feel to it because of the wet mud left in there. Nothing seemed out of place when I checked with the rotor off. Once clean, it had a nice positive stop when the shoes were turned out as tight as possible.

 

I am doing it in the fall #1 ,,, the park brakes 4Runner inspecting it ... clean it and wire brush it adjust the park brake pads then oil / anti seize lube around the pad shoes ...
I used my other vehicles using the threads of the anti seize adjust ....cleaned it ...

 

No apparent problems with the moving parts. However, I think contamination could end up playing a part in the degrading ability to hold the car statically. Certainly not the primary reason, because the parking brake’s static performance was poor brand new. That said, drum cleanout will have to become a more regular maintanance item for me going forward, since I tend to find myself in mud more than I expected. Lol. Now I understand why a whole wheeling forum is called ihatemud haha. Like undercarriage washout wasnt enough!

Thanks for sharing that. How long have you gone with out needing to readjust?

I think my next step is to dial in the cable adjustment, like you and a few others have suggested. I wonder if the cable adjustment acts on the shoes, or on the pedal? Maybe I should measure the fully retracted diameter of the shoes and compared it to the rotor ID to see how much space I have between them. That way, if I adjust the cable, and it physically moves the shoes outward, I can make sure it still has enough space while fully retracted to be able to put fit new pads if it’s ever necessary. I’ll figure those details out and post updates eventually.

Regarding the shoes touching just a little, I would think once they bed, the friction reduces, and wear stabilizes and becomes minimal.

My theory is that the reduced holding power comes from cable stretch…or maybe loss of bedding that might come from corrosion. I dont the cause itself it’s mud contamination because in my case, this was already an issue before I got into mud. But if that’s the case, why does it keep stretching more than in my other cars with drum in rotor? Maybe Its because Im demanding more from my 4runner than my other cars (I am when I park on sloped terrain), or my expectations are higher for my 4runner (they are). I want them to hold my 4runner to keep weight off the parking pawl, and to save me from my own stupidity should I ever exit the vehicle on a trail and somehow leave it in neutral.

(Of course, I always double check things before exiting, but I like to make use of other engrained habits like putting the parking brake on. It’s all about redundancy.)

 

The pedal. After adjustment yesterday, the vehicle will hold from rolling backwards on the slight grade with 10 clicks. So a little bit of an improvement from the maximum of 13.

So both trans and transfer case in neutral,? Or just transmission? With trans in neutral, it was easy to turn one wheel, but the other wasnt…but it coukd have been mud in the other one since didnt clean that side out.

 

You’re on to something there with the cable stretch.

I think that after the initial adjustment, after some interval there will need to be a second adjustment to account for cable stretch. But the cable will stretch a given amount and then stop. So that second adjustment for cable stretch would only happen once. Meanwhile, the parking brake shoes, which aren’t used to stop the vehicle but only hold it, shouldn’t require frequent adjustment going forward.

Regarding the cable adjustment, it seems to me that the cable should only be adjusted in the case that the brake cannot be set within the specified 8 clicks with the star adjusters.

 

I'd make sure everything is in N to be safe.

You are tightening the star wheel until you can't move it then back off 3 clicks right?

 

You should use it especially on a hill. Otherwise its just being held by your pall. (Not a good thing at all)

 

so my other GM parking brakes they put the adjuster clicks to tighten it up then , 12 clicks to unlock the brake shoes ....
did you tighten the star wheel and then adjust the clicks to 8 ? 4 Runner ?

 

Agree. I fully expected that cable stretch would be a non-issue after the second adjustment, but maybe the cable was marginally set to begin with at the factory (or dealer if that’s a PDI thing).

The more I think about it, the more I’m convincing myself to mess with the cable. Just need some time to figure out what the difference is between the console adjustment, and any other places the cables could be adjusted.

And some time to do it with patience so I dont do something stupid that will take me or a mechanic longer to undo lol

edit: The current 10 clicks to hold on an a very gentle incline is better than the nothing I had before. But an 8 click travel for a solid hold would be heaven for this parking brake geek!!! I’ll probably aim for a 8 click travel on a 20 degree incline. That would be pure success!!!

 

I think before you adjust the cable you should reset the star wheels to their minimum expansion.

 

Ok thanks. Yes, that is what I was trying to do on the first one, but it didnt feel right when I initially tried to tighten the shoes to maximum. I never got a solid stop, it just slowly took more and more pressure, but never felt like it solidly stopped. That’s what led me to pull the rotor/drum off, to check if anything was wrong. I think the mud caused that feeling, because after cleaning I could adjust it to max and feel a clear point where the shoes touched on the drum. Not sure if I’m making sense.

The other side never really seemed to turn smoothly, probably because of the mud… I hope. Although I got a solid stop on the adjuster when I hit maximum. Cleaning that will be for another weekend. And before I start messing with the cable.

 

That’s what I was thinking too, if the cable adjustment works upon/affects the shoes (like I think/hope), not the pedal.

Im thinking to set the shoes all the way to minumum, then adjust the cable until the shoes expand sufficiently shy of the drum inner diameter, then do the final set at the star adjuster when the rotor/drum is back on.

This is just based on how I think this all works, so I’ll update as I learn.

That said, I’m appreciating everyone’s input, and I would not mind if a master tech or someone who stayed at a holiday inn confirmed it works like I think it does.

 

Been a few years. I sold the 4Runner about 2 years ago and about 60k miles ago, but my friend has it. I'll ask him tomorrow but I don't think he's adjusted it.

I believe pedal.

I also believe this is why.

I think you're right. This has been my experience.

 

Let me clarify…8 clicks is the amount of clicks that you hear/feel on the pedal every time you apply the pedal. Somebody mentioned that at 8 clicks of pedal travel, the vehicle should be able to support itself on the parking brake and not roll back. I’m not sure if that’s toyota official specs, but it seems like 8 clicks is exactly the amount of travel I would want.

Right now, after my adjustment at the star wheel on the shoes, it can hold the vehicle on a slight incline after 10 clicks. I didnt set it for 10 clicks, but rather that is what resulted after maxing out the shoes out with the star wheel, and then backing it up a few teeth on star wheel.

Hopefully, I can get the pedal to work well at 8 clicks of travel after messing with the cable adjustment.

 

perfect, thanks!

maybe it’s the same difference if it only adjusts the pedal…. Regardless, I need to do more research to see if there are other points the cable can be adjusted, and which way is better. Thanks!

 

The repair manual procedure does include adjusting the cable:

1. INSPECT PARKING BRAKE PEDAL TRAVEL
(a) Fully depress the parking brake pedal to engage the parking brake.
(b) Depress the pedal again to disengage the parking brake.
(c) Slowly depress the parking brake pedal using the specified force and count the number of clicks.
Standard parking brake pedal travel:
5 to 7 clicks at 294 N (30 kgf, 66 lbf)
If the parking brake pedal travel is not as specified, adjust the parking brake shoe clearance and parking brake pedal travel.
2. REMOVE REAR WHEEL
3. ADJUST PARKING BRAKE SHOE CLEARANCE AND PARKING BRAKE PEDAL TRAVEL
(a) Remove the lower instrument panel finish panel sub-assembly.
(b) Completely release the parking brake pedal.
(c) Loosen the lock nut and adjusting nut to completely release the parking
brake cable.

(d) Temporarily install the hub nuts to the hub bolts.
HINT:
Securely install the hub nuts to the rear disc.
(e) Turn the shoe adjuster so that it expands until the disc locks.
(f) Turn the shoe adjuster so that it contracts until the disc can rotate smoothly.
Standard:
8 notches
(g) Check that there is no brake drag against the shoe.
(h) Turn the adjusting nut until the parking brake pedal travel is corrected to
be within the specified range.
Standard parking brake pedal travel:
5 to 7 clicks at 294 N (30 kgf, 66 lbf)
(j) Operate the parking brake pedal 3 to 4 times and check the parking brake pedal travel.
(k) Check that there is no brake drag against the shoe.
(l) Additionally, excessive pedal travel can be adjusted on the No. 1 parking brake cable as follows.
(1) Loosen the No. 1 parking brake cable lock nut.

(2) Turn the No. 1 parking brake cable adjustment nut until the parking brake pedal travel is correct.
Standard parking brake pedal travel:
5 to 7 clicks at 294 N (30 kgf, 66 lbf)
(3) Tighten the No. 1 parking brake cable lock nut.
(4) Depress and release the parking brake pedal 3 or 4 times. Then check the number of clicks when depressing the pedal.
Standard:
5 to 7 notches
If the result is not as specified, adjust the parking brake pedal travel again.
(m) Remove the hub nuts from the hub bolts.
(n) Install the lower instrument panel finish panel sub-assembly.
(o) When operating the parking brake lever, check that the brake warning light comes on.
OK:
The brake warning light always illuminates at the first click.
4. INSTALL REAR WHEEL

 

Absolute freakin GOLD!!!! THANK YOU!!!

So, am I reading it right? Adjusting pedal travel either at pedal, or at the “number 1” nut are viewed as equally acceptable methods?

Now I have to buy the toyota special tool pedal torque wrench to measure the torque on the pedal…l What a weird way to measure pressure lol

Just kidding, I will measure pedal pressure via time-honored German measurement standards: Guttentieght!

 

I haven't done it myself yet, but that's the way I read it! The caveat is that you might run out of adjustment travel doing it that way.

 

I should try to find one of my raw videos that show I put in reverse -> press the parking brakes -> step out of the vehicle to check them (while parking brakes hold the vehicle in reverse on down hill drive way..

 

I see you must be a man of great faith!!!