Considering KDSS or not?

Well great. It's not as good because 33's on 18's has worse off roading characteristics

 

Well, we agree there!

I hope we'll be able to fit 17's on these new things. 18's are for street tires.

 

I imagine it's probably got large rotors and calipers for street performance so it might not fit 17's

 

Looks like the trd pro taco has 18 inch wheels.

 

Perhaps the reason the Tacoma isn’t offered with KDSS is because KDSS isn’t compatible with leaf springs?

 

New one dropped leaf springs. Has the same rear suspension set up we do.

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ueshf401B0k

 

I hear you on the articulation. Whenever I'm out there my shit articulates into my bump stops no problem with sway bars connected so while in a test environment there is a difference which may or may not translate to the real world, I chose the 4runner for its reliability as the single most important factor in choosing an off roading platform. KDSS seems like a complicated way to add more failure points for a more comfortable ride when lightly off reading.

The more I watch the video the more I think it's potentially worse. Where you end up getting stuck is where you usually need to send it to get through. This often puts a lot of force on the car where maybe you dont want to immediately hit your bump stops.

 

KDSS only got extra front articulation. It has less rear articulation. With rigid sway bar you have to compromise some comfort as well.

Reliability term depends how you look at it. Its no magic KDSS is a hydraulic system just like your suspension. Depending on the use it would need some service. Hopefully with new E-KDSS Toyota introduced in Land Cruiser 300 some models it maybe a reliable system than the hydraulic KDSS.

I think if new sway disconnect on Tacoma comes to 6th gen 4runner is would be best of both worlds in comfort and offroad articulation when needed. As far as I understand not all scenarios swaybar disconnect helps. Like on steep angles on to sides disconnected swaybar (even KDSS) would be a disadvantage and possible for rollover would be high.

But 100% agreed if you want reliability go KISS over KDSS, keep it simple. If you look at Asia/ Australia people prefer non KDSS Prado / Land Cruiser for offroad and tanks like Land Cruiser 70 series has non of those. Even with solid axle it doesn't have much front articulation. But they are no BS work horses.

 

I totally get it if you are concerned about reliability. Plus, as I have mentioned, it does end up becoming a limitation with a heavily modified suspension.

I'm just pointing out that it does provide additional articulation over the standard sway bar setup, which is its primary purpose.

True, but it did get more overall articulation, which is what I think is the important thing. Plus , articulation was more evenly distributed front to rear, keeping the vehicle more stable and level.

But, there are other drawbacks as you mentioned. I have pointed out some of them as well. Honestly, if this one got totaled out, I would probably go for the standard sway bar set up, and delete the front sway bar.

I am also hoping that the new E-KDSS ends up being a more reliable, and more capable setup.

 

Only the higher trim models get coils.
Tacoma SR, SR5 Xtra Cab, and TRD PreRunner trims keep the leaf design.

 

Interesting, I hadn’t heard of eKDSS.

Nah. It’s just another potential failure point ;-)

 

Right, so most models are going to have coils in the rear. Almost all models which are going to get modified.

 

I saw a short video about it. It eliminates the hydraulic link from the front to rear sway bar, and controls both sway bars individually via electronic solenoids or actuators.

As far as the Tacoma not getting KDSS, it could be due to the fact that they do not have a rear sway bar. Therefore, a rear sway bar disconnect doesn't apply.

It also could be due to cost, as the sway bar disconnect they are using is probably a simpler mechanism.

It also could be due to the fact that they did not share a platform with other models that come available with KDSS.

 

It will have sway bars.

Other than those super low end models which are going to be work trucks, all new tacomas get our rear end with coils links and sway bars because it rides nicer on road and the tacoma always got dinged for having the worse ride on road.


The new access cab wont have rear doors - no one's going to get that thing. Might as well be phased out....except for maybe as a work truck.

It's not the cost. like I keep saying, the vehicles that have the KDSS have VERY HIGH ROLL OVER RISK and KDDS helps to minimize that - nor is is a luxary car where they want a smooth ride. The tacoma is a different platform with less roll over risk and doesn't need it. It's not a box box SUV with a lot of weight up high.

Money savings no I dont think so either. G4 taco has aluminum knuckles to save weight and better suspension performance and they have suspension built into their seats on the halo models and a lot of other things.

 

And, like I keep saying, the idea that necessary safety feature would be only offered on some trims as an option is absolutely ridiculous.

The 4Runner has been sharing the same platform as the GX and the Prado, which both have come with available KDSS. The Tacoma has not. This is one possible explanation for why it is available on the 4Runner and not the Tacoma.

As far as it not coming down to cost, the TRD Pro 4Runner was supposed to come with KDSS, but it was eliminated also due to cost. You don't think Toyota is run by a bunch of Penny Pinchers?

Side note: the shocks built into the seats on the higher end models looks cheesy and gaudy. Big pass for me.

 

Looks like the Tacoma is built on the same TNGA-F body-on-frame platform used by the Tundra, Sequoia and Land Cruiser.

It makes sense when you can't say we have this thing to help prevent death because our vehicle is so dangerous and poorly designed for safety because if you say that then the plaintiff's lawyer simply quotes you in court and then you don't have much of an argument.

I mean - name any other current SUV with a similarly high roll over risk?

I think the shocks get covered. My initial thoughts was that they were stupid, but when we go out on trails and my wife is bouncing all over int he passenger seat while she's trying to read or sleep - if these seats could minimize that - I guess that would be cool?

 

Yes, they will all be built on the TNGA platform, but the models offered with KDSS will probably have the same dimensions, meaning all of the same parts could be used.

If it had anything to do with safety, why would they not offer it on all trims, excluding the limited? Or, better yet why would they not just make it standard on all trims beside the limited?

 

Because it adds cost for those who don't want it.

 

So what?

Some people don't want airbags. Some people don't want seat belts. Those are not optional, because they are safety equipment.

 

Hey I think we're getting a little off track. I'm not sure what to say since yeah that's not option, but I do enjoy our back and forth.

 

Lol, agreed.

Anyone else reading this is probably either amused or annoyed.

 

LOL - i was getting a little worried about that

 

funny how the mere mention of kdss turns into debate. very polarizing.

i bet a fight would break out even if i made a post with just “KDSS” as the subject and no body.

btw - KDSS is cool.

 

After reading through this all I can think is if you want amazing off road capabilities then the 4Runner shouldn’t be your first choice. After being around some Rubicons (Unlimiteds and Gladiators) and Broncos, we have to spend a ton of dough to get their articulation and ground clearance … but at the risk of centre of gravity and CV issues. Since I live where (Toronto area) most of the trails near me are mild, 4Runner is my choice as a daily. If I lived near the Rockies, then a Gladiator would be my choice. Outside of stock set up reliability (which most of us on here don’t leave it that way), you can’t beat a Jeep for offroading.

 

I wouldn't lump the Bronco in with this, unless you're referring to the older ones. The new Bronco is IFS also.

Otherwise, I tend to agree. A Wrangler is a much better choice for technical off-roading.

Still, the 4Runner, with minimal modification, will do more than most people are willing to attempt.

 

A Wrangler only makes sense to me as a second vehicle.

Back on the topic of KDSS, it doesn't seem very easy to get unless you're willing to wait for special order. None of the dealerships in my area were getting KDSS-equipped 4Rs in their normal allocations.

 

Agreed on the sentiment on what most people will actually use their vehicles for. Regarding new Bronco, yes IFS also but less modifications or even none compared to us when going with bigger tires. Front sway bar disconnect and more torque applied to the ground in 4L. Granted not my choice due to size, and some cont’d reliability issues. Had one guy on the trail stall going uphill and couldn’t get it re-started till winching to the top. Only mods he had where tires as far as I could tell.

 

I guess we are either lucky or unlucky in Canada by having the TRD Off Road only coming one way: KDSS + Premium.

 

Agreed about the Wrangler. I'd love to have one as a trail toy. But, I think I'd be miserable driving across the country in one.

I was shopping around and comparing prices in January of '19, and fortunately the dealership I was planning on buying from had 2 in stock, both MGM. I didn't plan on getting MGM necessarily, but it was one of the options I was open to. Part of me was trying to get away from gray Toyotas, but I do like the color.

True, the Bronco has a few real advantages over the 4Runner. Hopefully the 6th gen will be a bit more off-road oriented, but we'll see.