Ask the Toyota dealer and maybe you can get a different perspective??

Who is the "chain of command" for vehicle deals? I know there is the salesperson, then the sales manager, but who's above that? Who ultimately makes the final determination on price as far as the dealership is concerned?

I feel like when I buy a vehicle ever $1,000 bucks knocked off I have to talk to yet a different and more in charge person. Feels likes an old school boss fight ladder from Mortal Kombat haha

 

Why the heck does Toyota set up remote start and have it turn off when you open the door and then have to restart it?? Not one other brand does this that I know of. More of annoyance than anything.

 

It's kinda chicken and the egg isn't it? It seems like dealerships need to make commission so they haggle with the customer. The customer expects the haggle so they go in haggling. The dealership has to combat the haggle so they adjust/obfuscate prices and give people different deals which then causes the customer to feel like they need to haggle. Repeat.

The whole system is pretty wack imo, but what do I know.

 

It is weird, for example if I want to buy a lawn mower I look for local deals and sales. I go hey Lowes' has em for the cheapest. I buy it and I leave satisfied. At no point later will my neighbor with the same lawnmower tell me, "Hey, you should of went to the Lowes across town and talked to Randy, he'll cut ya a deal".

I guess with higher priced items like homes and vehicles, everyone wants a little piece of the money so commission is born and thats why prices are all over the place.

Edit for OP: You may want to clarify the scope of your work more clearly in your opening post. Seems people want to ask design and engineering questions that are more geared to Toyota Corporate.

 

First, I'm not defending dealerships. I have a neutral take on them.

The reason the prices are fluid is actually IMO the manufacturers fault, coupled with people's indecisiveness. People want choice, then complain about complexity. There are 30 models and about 10 trims on each.

Just on a 4Runner, SR5, SR5 Premium, Off road, Off road premium, Pro, Limited. Now trims, Nightshade, venture, etc. Now dealer add ons, Predator steps, all weather floor mats.

The problem isn't they can't agree on price. The problem is no two dealerships have exactly the same product.

There are 2 apple homepods. Regular, and mini. White or black (doesn't affect price).

There are 4 iPhones, and a handful of colors. Of those 4 types, there's a max of 3 GB size options. That's it. All very consistent. Simple to price and compare. That, and apple tells you to jump off a bridge if you want a discount. Stable pricing model....

 

Subsequently!
Toyota's insistence on few dealer discounts keep used car pricing up.

Example: Nissan offers $5000 off a $30,000 truck to everyone. The effective price you pay is $25,000. When you tell people you bought a $30,000 truck and a year later it's worth $19,000 you fail to mention you paid $25,000, and so did everyone else. Toyota doesn't offer a bunch of dealer incentives, and you'll complain when you buy, but because it's consistent across the entire market, it keeps used prices in line, and you get great resale.

If you're the goober that paid $30,000 for a $25,000 Nissan, and it's worth $19,000 in a year, you're probably not happy.

 

So far this thread isn't a dumpster fire yet. Nice job forum!

 

Exactly!!!

 

Correct me if I'm wrong OP, but selling new cars isn't where most dealers make their money. A lot of times the dealers are selling new cars at a loss (not sure about Toyota specifically). So when people get all butthurt that the dealer isn't giving them that extra $1000 off, it's because the dealer is already loosing money on the deal.

Dealers make the biggest chunk of their money from selling used cars, financing, warranties, and service.

 

Thank you for this thread OP. I have read so many horror tales about service departments that I won't even go to the dealer for an inspection. You say all your techs use torque wrenches and I do not doubt you but obviously this is not across the board for all departments. So many stripped out bolts, overtightened pan plugs and filters and on and on. How is a guy/gal supposed to know if their service department is staffed with competent techs or hacks? I fear the day I have to bring my Runner in for the fuel pump recall.

 

Vegas wasn't built on Winners and either are Car dealerships is the Truth. I'm friends with two owners of a single Toyota dealer who are very well off!! I can tell you the Majority of my past commission sales on new cars was $150 mini and on used cars a minimum of $500 most closer to $1000 plus plus plus. If I was to sell again it would be for Subaru those sales people Bank money from Subaru and the dealer. Used cars I couldn't stomach the bull shit is a nice way to put it but the money is beyond Great. My buddy clears 20k a month selling used cars 35-50 sales a month. Hope this answered your question. Thank you.

 

I truly appreciate your honesty about selling/ dealing with used cars. Something you couldn't know about could come back to haunt you. Selling 50 cars a month I guarantee there are a few problem cars in the bunch & you get to be "that guy".
Used car sales is just a crap shoot if you ask me.
Thanks,
Ryan.

 

To my earlier point, used cars have one more set of variables that make things more complex. Complexity increases the opportunity to lose track of the fine line. Take the tons of trims, models, and then add years, mileage, condition. Now you can truly not compare a 2014 4Runner SR5 w/ 80,000 miles and an immaculate interior, no exterior dings to a 2014 4Runner SR5 w/ 40,000 miles and rust.

When confusion and chaos exist, those skilled in the craft will always win. I'm not referring to car dealerships here. I'm referring to anything. Gamestop is a good recent example. Who really won that? I'd say it was the people who shorted it when it was 469 / share.

 

Wut

 

Easier to make more money on used cars, too difficult to compare to used cars to each other, allowing the value to vary much more wildly than new cars. Used cars offer much more margin because they are harder to appraise all things equal.

New car, you'll make $200 - $400 commission. The used car salespeople can be $500 and up in the thousands. At the GM dealership easily making 6 figures if they were good. The new car guys were too if they were good, but good is 20 cars a month.

My favorite quote from one of the people I'd buy from was while on a test drive he said: "Drive it till you love it, then let me know and I'll do the paperwork."

 

LOL

When I "give something away," especially if it is part of a deal in which the recipient is paying me (so really, no one is "giving anything away"), I don't trick the recipient into thinking he is getting more than I'm actually giving him, and I wouldn't use tiny fine print to enable such shady practices. I am totally honest in what I do. ToyotaCare regarding the 4Runner is dishonest, plain and simple. I don't care that they don't want to do the work (frankly, requiring every bolt on the chassis be tightened seems laughable to me anyway, but alas, I'm not surprised that Toyota's lawyers put that in there).. but they should be clear and honest about that, which they are not. They use false-advertising.

Even though a perfect monopoly is trying to be reached via car sales, the buying process and dealers associated don't need to be shady. Some things should be clear. In this case, "ToyotaCare" is anything but.

 

@koukimonster's point, in fact, is valid. I'm no jurist but I think they call it deceptive advertising. Which causes me to wonder if it has ever been tried through class action? Eyes wide open.

 

"Sales sells the first vehicle and Service sells the second".

I called the service department and explained that I'd just picked up my 4Runner a couple of days ago and that the vehicle info history had several messages of a serious nature and that I should contact the dealer. When I arrived, the service advisor tried to tell me I needed to leave the vehicle for the day. Had I known that, I could have brought my bike to ride home-that part is neither here nor there. Soon, a writer came out to explain the process and why this would take all day. I politely declined and went back home where I did what I probably should have done in the first place, read the codes. Nothing persistent and nothing stored. So I deleted the messages and went about my day.

Based on my experience, I was pretty disappointed with both the advisor and the writer. Especially since this is more than likely a failure of whom ever PDI'd the vehicle. Disappointed because the quick answer was to read the codes and report that nothing was wrong. I would have been happier. Instead, the appointment will be written off as a no-show and nothing will change.

I'm a service manager for a different brand so I understand the process and the difficulty with scheduling and drop-ins. But common sense says I should be able to take care of that pretty quickly and without interrupting WIP.

Back to the first line.

 

so I want to comment this,

when I got the 4runner on 1/29/2021, it was 60 months for 2.9%.
when it was time to sign all the paperwork. They want to up sell this tire package, I told him 2 times I dont want it. I said to him, you are selling me this package for this price, but dividing it up for 60 months PLUS interest, so that's not that price. He stepped back for a second. He said how much do you think the interest would be, I told him, probably not much but im still paying more. So he lowered it the interest down to 2.74 to cover the difference. I told him I didn't want it, but it was 10 cents more a month. I wanted to get the hell of there. I took it... I was a little annoyed but this process. Now I just read the T&C on this tire package deal, it is another a headache. They should have present me the terms first, but again i wanted to pick up the truck and go. (Shame on me)

So when you said its not up to the dealer to change interest rates... I say its false, he changed it right in front of me, but I can't say for the people with lower credits, I have really high credit score.

 

The dealer has a little wiggle room in terms of interest rate but a lot depends on you credit score.

Service contracts are often a ripoff. Best to read them, especially the exclusions before signing. They’re great for finance, not so much collecting.

 

I’ve had them offer to match rates before, it’s my experience that they start high and see what will stick.

 

In almost every single case the paint protection, tire package, windshield warranty are all garbage. Easy fear tactic sale and almost no benefit to consumer, because to meet deductible, requirements of the service, etc are designed by the same people who figured out your health insurance...lawyers.

The only useful items are an actual warranty and gap. Warranty is preference, and gap can be cancelled during the duration of it's coverage for a pro-rated refund, but they don't tell you that because it would incur a chargeback.

 

What does a dealer pay for a TRD PRO?

 

Just cancel the tire and wheel the interest rate is set in stone now..lol.. What that dealer did is so illegal they could lose their license..



Next time have a check from your bank or credit union will fix this issue for you. Sorry it went down that way our dealership is very upfront and everyone pays the same for warranties, T&W, gap etc. We refuse to sell tire and wheel and only sell it when the customer demands it. T&W is a nightmare for the service dept and customer.

 

If you came into my service dept I would read the distrust and anger in your voice and just do the oil change (free of charge) for customer service. Find a better Toyota dealer or spend the extra money life is to short to be upset.

 

Good luck getting to MSRP we have three coming in all $3000 above MSRP and sold.

Here is a Picture of invoice vs MsRP Good luck.

I feel horrible sending you down this path..

 

From the weeks of shopping I did, 3K markup is a bargain price. Now I'm sure someone somewhere sells them at MSRP. But, I sure as hell couldn't find them.

 

The several dealers I spoke with here in the MD / DC suburbs say they sell that Pros at MSRP. They don't last long! Sales rep said "If you want one and you see one, you better buy it that day"!

To the OP: What are your thoughts on the Pro versus the TRD OR Premium, if money is not a concern?

Thanks!

 

The TrdPro is the best out of the factory/port Toyota made and holds its value extremely well. I love them and their very sexy. I personally lease a Trd offroad premium and love it. Its also in my budget... I have a paid off Rubicon 2005 LJR for offroading..

 

Invoice is another interesting concept. Given dealer incentives from the mfg change all that. Sell x number of poor performers and a dealer gets something. Overall numbers matter too.

Short answer is when is invoice pricing not invoice pricing?