6th gen Speculation Thread

Yeah Toyota loves highway gearing probably better for long term reliability and cheap way to get better epa numbers on government paperwork. They have some of the tallest gearing in the truck segment unfortunately

 

I really think a lot of the complaints about the 1GR could have been solved with a 6 or 8 speed transmission and 4.10 gears. It would probably actually help with my fuel economy, because I have to drive in S4 if I want to go 80 and not have it downshift every 10 seconds.

 

Realized I posted this reply in a different thread, so moving it here. I'm getting my gen 6 threads mixed up, haha.

I get highway gearing, and really have no problem with it, as long as the engine has the guts for it. My 2.73 geared LS1 car turns 1500rpm at 70mph and will pull damn near any grade at that speed with the cruise on without downshifting.

Different comparison I know, but just using it as an example.

That said, no practical reason they can't give us a lower low range though. Jeep figured out how to do 4:1, Toyota should be able to do at least 3 - 3.50:1

 

From a mechanical standpoint, this is my only big complaint about the 5th Gen. IMO the motor is powerful enough in both HP and torque, but suffers in acceleration, MPG, and transmission behavior simply because it has only 5 gears. Honda’s V6 in the Passport and Ridgeline is quite similar in output to our 4.0, but they get much better performance and MPG due in part to having a modern transmission.

I don’t actually know if there’s a 6 or 8 spd that’s as bulletproof as our 5AT (the ZF 8 has a great rep) but if there is, I’ve always felt that’s where 4R buyers have been cheated the past few years. Other than this and the halogen headlights when everyone else had gone LED, I don’t have any significant complaints.

 

I just hope they don't do highway gearing and slap on doofy crawl control and mts in place of actual crawl gear like they did the new tundra. Titan zf 9 speed, diffs and trans case smokes the new tundra when it comes to gearing in 1st gear 4lo.

 

The numbers themselves that the four liter produce are perfectly adequate, the problem is where in the RPM range they occur. Torque peak should be at 2,400 RPM, not 4,400 RPM. Realistically, how often are you driving at 4400 RPM? Therein lies the problem.

I'm sure a better transmission would help, but the root of the problem is that the four liter produces very little low end torque. That's a problem with higher horsepower v6s, they sacrifice low and power to chase those higher in numbers that look good on paper to folks that don't know any better.

 

Is the 23 Highlander 4 cylinder engine direct injection?

 

This is a very fair point, but a good trans makes the best use of the engine’s power band. If the 4R had a manual, we’d be shifting up at higher RPMs and would be used to keeping the engine closer to the meat of the torque curve. Sure, it’s nicer to have high torque down low, and enabling this is one of the benefits of turbos, but our 4Rs suffer from a trans that just doesn’t work great with our motors, from a performance perspective.

 

I don't know how true this is, but I've heard our 5th gen transmissions have always been capable of having a 6th gear built into it.

 

From what I can find, the 1GR is making over 240 lb/ft (about 85% of peak) at 2000 RPM's, so it seems like it's more of a gearing issue to me.

 

Right. It’s both gearing and the shift logic. How they’re programmed to shift. The ZF 8 spd is known to be almost telepathic in shifting and holding gears just as the driver would prefer under the circumstances. Our trans not so much lol. It b a dumbo

 

Got a link? I'd love to see this. I've looked, but haven't been able to find that info. I'm just going by my butt dyno and how terrible this is at holding speed on any type of grade.

I mountain bike, so I tend to think of this in terms of shifting on my bike. When I'm in good shape at the height of the season, I can climb hills in higher gears without downshifting. When I'm not in good shape, I have to drop a couple gears and spin faster to climb up the same hills. That's how I think of torque with these motors and transmissions. With grunt one can muscle up at low RPM, without grunt dropping gears for higher RPM is required.

I did see a dyno chart of one of these, I think it was showing gains from an intake & exhaust, and even then it was showing 150tq at 2000rpm. Granted, that was at the wheels, but still.

I agree that the gearing is probably less than ideal though, as well as the programming. I'm also curious is to how much torque management these transmissions have, and how much of what the engine produces we are actually getting.

I was driving in a hilly area of central Massachusetts yesterday, and had to toggle in and out of fourth quite a bit, and a few times shift into S3 in order to hold speed.

 

A couple of years ago I spoke to a guy with a JLU Rubicon running 38's on stock axle gears with that trans, and he said it was surprisingly good like that. The 3.6 is no hotrod, so I find that pretty impressive, haha.

 

It was a comparison of the earlier 1GR to the 2UZ. Of course, ours have dual VVT-I, so It might not be exactly the same. But, I'm sure it has a similar torque curve.



https://canadiangearhead.com/4runner-v8-vs-v6/


The reason It has to downshift isn't because it makes more torque at higher RPM's as much as it is about leverage. Just like your mountain bike. It's not like your legs get stronger when you pedal faster. You're just getting more leverage, through gearing.

 

Yes, but it also has port injection too. Toyota and Lexus do NOT offer pure direct injection engines in the US currently.

 

Nissan / Infiniti's 3.5 liter 6 cylinder workhorse has, in some applications a timing belt, others (think G-35) have the long chain just like the Toyota 4.0. Both have a long history and both have been very reliable. I had a G35-6 MT 2 door coupe that I drove hard with never an issue.

 

That’s good to know. Helps to keep the valves clean.

 

Now that the 40th Anniversary Edition and 2023 Pro Color have been announced, this thread is aging like a fine wine

 

An interesting piece of info from another forum popped up and I thought I'd share it because it corroborates the info in the original post.

A webpage that shows Toyota's production schedule was found by a member over there. This is the production schedule from Toyota's Guanajuato Plant. If you scroll down about half way under the "Upcoming Programs" heading you'll see that it says production on the 610L(2) is to begin January 2024.

610L was the production code given to the 5th gen 4Runner back in 2009 (for the 2010 Model Year). The assumption is the 610L(2) would be the 6th gen 4Runner code.

Here is the link.

https://teamqualityservices.com/locations/toyota-guanajuato-mx/

 

If that is the case I think a lot of loyal customers will be bummed out.

 

After seeing spy shots of the 2024 Tacoma, I wonder if the 6th gen will have a live rear axle as the Tacoma does not in the shots.

 

So that means it will be almost 2 years before we see the updated 4Runner on dealer lots. Is the 920B the Taco?

 

I thought the same thing.

Where are you seeing this? If they go to an independent rear suspension they might as well just junk it because it'll just be a Highlander then. Unless they are planning some super beefy independent setup like a Hummer. But, I doubt that.

 

On Apple News is where I saw it. It is an Autoblog story. https://www.autoblog.com/2022/05/27/2024-toyota-tacoma-to-get-coil-spring-rear-suspension/

 

those pics show a solid rear axle, not an independent.

 

Codes from site below are confirmed on another site for the following vehicles.

https://teamqualityservices.com/locations/toyota-guanajuato-mx/

Toyota Platforms:

• GA-F
• F2

Current Programs:

• 989A | November 2019 – November 2023 (Tacoma)

Upcoming Programs:

• 920B | December 2023 – November 2031 (Tacoma)
• 610L(2) | January 2024 – December 2032 (4Runner)

The plant in Guanajuato, Mexico.

 

so 6th gen 4Runner is moving production to Mexico???

 

No. I just threw in that pic and named the factory to throw you guys off.

 

I see it says coil springs, but nothing about an independent suspension.

 

Yeah, it says the Tacoma used to have leaf springs in the rear. Now it’s getting coils, like the 4Runner has now.