6th gen Speculation Thread

Preferring to be a pleasantly surprised pessimist, there is no way Toyota will make a bare-bones trail machine like a Bronco or Wrangler, which even in their most basic, stock form are affordable and very capable. As we've seen in the base Tundra and the upcoming base Tacoma, they have weak powertrains compared to their higher trimmed brethren. Toyota could easily make a new 4Runner/FJ with two doors, a 3.5 TT and manual trans that would compete with the Bronco and Wrangler and they would sell like water in the dessert. I was excited about the new Tacoma 2 door, but no rear coils and no manual trans options so far seems cheap to me.

 

That was my first thought too when I saw that pic, strong Bronco Sport vibes with it. In fact at first glance I thought it WAS the baby Bronc.

Give me the capability of the Sasquatch pkg on the Sport body and I'd be all over it. The removable roof on the big Bronco is actually a turn off for me.

 

I see quite a few Rubicons and Sasquatch Broncos in my area. I know they're not getting used, because there are next to no trails here. Yet people buy them in droves, because they look cool. I'm convinced most Rubi buyers have no idea what a 4:1 t-case is, and buy them strictly because of the wheel/tire pkg and hood decal. Same with the Bronc, those 35" tires look so damn cool.

If Toyota came out with an off-road weapon 4Runner, it WOULD sell on the basis of looks alone. It has to be a 4door though, as much as people talk about the FJ, it was a sales failure. No reason a new version would be any different. The take rate on 2 doors is super low on Bronco, Wrangler, and pickup trucks.

 

Lol! Bare bones?

I don't think anyone makes a bare bones trail machine for the us market anymore.

 

A base Wrangler is pretty damn bare bones, manual transmission and hand crank windows standard, AC is approx 1,500 extra.

Base Bronco is pretty basic too with steel wheels, but not sure about AC or transmission.

 

Did you say "hand crank windows" ???? I may fall in love.

My SR5 came with ZERO options and yet I have:

a passenger side rearview mirror
towing package
roof rack
alloy wheels
LED main and dip beams
fog lights
electric windows
electric door locks
air conditioning
cruise control
automatic transmission

Would love a bare bones stock vehicle. But not one that was a piece of junk.

 

Sure, but their top end off-roading trims come with all sorts of goodies and BS. If you could get the base model Wrangler with Dana 44's, now you'd be talking!

I don't care at all about the Bronco, because I don't really think it's a big step up from the 4Runner as far as off-road capability.

With the change in platform, I wonder if it would be easier for them to offer a manual transmission option. If they offered a base model 4Runner with a manual transmission option, that would probably be a hot seller.

Personally, I'm fine with them not offering a manual crank window option. And, while I rarely use my AC, I regularly have to use it when I have other people in the car. Some people don't like when their hair gets blown around.

 

Would you really want a vehicle without any of those things though?

I could see not wanting a roof rack and not wanting an automatic transmission. But, I don't really see anything else on that list that I wouldn't want, and/or consider an upgrade.

 

Yup! Base Wrangler is pretty much a UTV, haha. Manual locks, windows, trans, steel wheels, soft top. Only tech is pretty much what's required by DOT.

I did just check the Jeep site, it appears AC is now standard. Base 2 door starts at $31,195, add 4K for the 4door.

 

I didn't mean to imply that I don't want any of those things: passenger side rearview mirror is great and I use cruise control all the time. LED headlights are stunning on the 4Runner.

 

Agree. That would be a great start for a trail rig. I do believe the 2024 Wranglers are all going to come standard with a rear full float 44, which also up tow rating to 5k lbs.

Disagree about the Bronco. It has better approach and departure angles than the 4R, available front locker, disconnecting front sway bar, much better gearing (diffs, trans, t-case) which gives a much better crawl ratio. You have to admit, at 33:1 the 4Rs is fairly pathetic. You can option a Bronc or Rubi out to nearly 100:1. Plus bigger optional tires, and ability to go 37s with simple mods.

Even the footprint of the vehicle is better. Sasquatch bronc has a wide track in relation to the body, IMO the 4R's is narrow compared to the body. What might be a scuffed fender flare on a Bronc (or Wrangler) is going to be significant body damage on a 4R.

IMO the 4R is fairly limited as a platform for a serious off-road build.

As for manual transmissions, I think the take rate would be super low. On something like a Corvette I might want a manual, but on a truck/SUV that's a DD, nah. Plus auto is arguably better off-road with the right gearing.

Just my .02.

 

I suppose I could see the desire for something stripped down for a trail toy. For me, part of the appeal of the 4Runner is that it's enjoyable to drive to the trailhead and back home afterwards, and still pretty badass on the trail. I still think they can do better at both, though.

Agreed about the crawl gear.

Yes, a lot of the specs look better. But, I guess if I really wanted an off-road advantage I would get a Wrangler. The Bronco might be a slight upgrade, but the Wrangler has more of an advantage with a solid front axle. The Wrangler has enough off-road chops to make up for being basically a piece of crap as a daily driver. The Bronco does not.

I also consider the automatic better in some situations. But, if I were to buy/ build something specifically for trail use, I would want a crawlbox and a manual transmission if possible.

 

The Land Cruiser and 4Runner are wide spectrum utility vehicles which means that they are excellent across a very wide variety of tasks and applications but not the nec plus ultra in any of them. The Bronco is better off road. The Denali XL is a better people mover. The Range Rover is faster. The Suburban is a better long distance cruiser and so on and so forth (examples picked at random.) So apart from reliability and longevity, the LC and 4Runner are not tens at anything but they are 8.75s at everything. Therein lies the everlasting appeal of these well balanced trucks. And if you try to improve one aspect of this wide spectrum of use, it will cost you in another. So Toyota has tried to maintain this organic balance in these vehicles and long may they do so.

 

Good point. I've often said my 4R is like a Swiss army knife, good at a lot of things as opposed to great at one thing.

I DO think it could be a bit more off-road biased without giving anything else up, but that just adds to the price.

 

Toyota doesn't sell the 70 series Land Cruiser in North America which is a pity. Why they only sell the 150 series (4Runner and Lexus GX) is a mystery to me but it would be great to see the heavy duty workhorse 70 series sold here. I would buy it in a heartbeat.

 

All this talk by a few enthusiasts wanting an FJ70 in the US market, IT WILL NOT HAPPEN, why?

1) US Safety Standards
2) US Emissions Standards
3) US CAFE Standards

Even if all that were overcome, it would sell less units than the FJ Cruiser. The 90% of buyers who will never even take their 4x4 on a dirt road, want their plush luxuriers. Toyota has no interest in investing in an old ICE platform when US buyers can buy a GX or LX.

 

Mostly agree, but I could see it selling ok. I suppose it depends on what plush luxuries we would have to live without, though.

If you're talking about moonroofs, leather, power seats, etc, I could live without those things. But, if you're talking about power windows, power locks, and cruise control, I would not buy a vehicle without these things. That is, unless it was something truly special.

 

We 10% get no vote, our 10% wants and wishes would be a money losing proposition for Toyota.

 

Agreed. But, look how well Jeep does with the Wrangler. I think something truly utilitarian could do well here if marketed properly. Then again, the Wrangler has a lot more history in the US. Well, everywhere honestly.

 

But how may base models do they sell, that's what people want, a base FJ70. Jeep would not survive only selling base models.

 

Good point!

And, to reinforce that point, the base model is exactly what I would want. Two-door, manual transmission, and whichever engine is less problematic. If I got a Wrangler I would probably be okay with the Dana 30s, because I would probably only put 33s, or maybe 35s on it. And, I tend to use finesse when I'm off-roading, not send it like those goons.

 

Makes you wonder if they are filling in the void of the FJ Cruiser but this time it comes in a 4 doors with a legendary name plate.

 

What void?

The FJ Cruiser was a sad attempt at a tribute to the old FJ Landcruisers. It was nothing more than a shortened 4Runner with a goofy makeover. Toyota has made, and still does make better off-roaders, including the earlier 4Runners.

The 4Runner is doing a fine job of filling any void, IMO, aside from not looking like a clown car.

 

100%! Other than the first few years, sales of the FJ were pretty slow. I wouldn't be surprised if Toyota lost money on it.

 

We know the 70 series isn't coming to North America. Never even a whiff of a hope but I'd buy one in a heartbeat -- or simply import a 25 year-old truck.

 

I don’t know what the market in Europe is these days but 20 years ago people were giving FJs away. 2000 euros was enough for my FJ70 and another 1500 euros for K02 tires and a few repairs. All I have done in twenty years is standard maintenance and change the oil every 5K kilometers. I expect the same for the next twenty years.

I did enquire a year or so ago about the cost of exporting an FJ to the States and it was about $5K. If you buy an FJ in Europe buy one from S Europe as the N European cars tend to have lots of rust. Italy, Portugal, France and Spain are good places to look. Stay away from German cars as the roads there are highly salted.

 

I spent the better part of 25 years in France and I don't remember ever seeing a Land Cruiser. There were some Prados when I was in the UK but not in France that I remember, nor in Spain now that I think of it. They might have been there but I never saw any. Too busy chasing French women, no doubt!

 

Europe is one of the largest markets for Land Cruiser. There is a factory in Portugal that makes them and the streets and fields of Europe are crawling with them. You might have been tasting too much wine.

And one tip: you can chase all the girls of Europe to your heart’s content, but you must never chase a French woman. Instead you must create the illusion that she is chasing you. The less you chase, the more she chases. We call this “the little war.”

 

I’m encouraged that 23 pages in this discussion might turn to a “how to” for catching hot foreign women. Priorities…

 

An important new article from the Australian Drive website discusses the US Land Cruiser based on "Toyota sources". This is great news as it gives additional confirmation to information @Carmaker1 has shared and some of the information I've heard on the Plano grapevine.

New Toyota Prado to get retro LandCruiser styling in the US, will it come to Australia?
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