6th gen Speculation Thread

That is likely where it will settle and all indications are that since its a prado that is where it will be. However that also means some 4R sales are going to get cannibalizing. And that is what is perplexing to me.
Same is their decision to introduce grand highlander. Its third row is a winner over sequoia. How many sequoias do we see off roading? They are 99% bought by soccer moms. Why would they now not choose grand highlander with more space, much better usable third row. I am going to be bold and say I question if sequoia has long term future, it is on its way out given GH does everything sequoia does, better.
And in similar vein, why have two vehicles -- LC and 4R -- that are so close to each other in your lineup? If they shelved 4R completely and gave us 5-6 LC trims that is a different story. But as it stands, I am not sure this will not affect 4R sales 2024+.

 

nice. Looks very similar to mine. Never knew what model I had but probably the same

 

I see two possibilities:
Land Cruiser becomes the real off-road competitor, maybe absorbing the top 4R trim like the TRD Pro and potential Trailhunter version, and 4Runner continues to evolve from today but without the distraction of trying to be everything to everyone in the category.

I mean, Jeep has the Wrangler and the Grand Cherokee. Wrangler is hard core off-road, Grand Cherokee can be spec'd out to be capable, but it's not as hard core.

Toyota has the Lexus GX to compete with Land Rover, the 4Runner to compete with the mid-size SUV world, and Land Cruiser to compete with Wrangler and Bronco. Sorta makes sense to me.

 

Oh, I forgot, second possibility: the TrailMinx. jk.

 

Sorry don’t buy that.
You can not take such a hard turn from a 4R to a unibody vehicle like Jeep GC. Just not going to happen.

 

They easily can, but then the question would be why two midsized unibody / crossover SUVs (with the Highlander).

 

that simply isn’t true. This is arguably the most conservative OEM, I find it extremely hard to believe Toyota will take such a drastic turn and change 4R so much with just one iteration. not gonna happen. No way.

 

The LC is about as prestige an automotive brand as exists in the off-road /truck/SUV segment. So Toyota will probably not send their Ivanhoe in to wrestle pigs, not send Mahomes back to play flag or Judge back to Little League. They will have to take the time (and time they have taken with the 4Runner) to craft an industry leading $40-60K product to do battle with the Wrangler/Bronco . That, broadly speaking, will certainly not be a LC though a top end LC will show advantages over the competition’s top end offerings.

The Wrangler/Bronco market is lucrative and rapidly expanding. Toyota is not in the game. They have to either create a new product or retrofit an existing one. Why not one with massive brand recognition and existing popularity? And they are taking their sweet time to do it which explains all the delays. They have to get it right. 2025 may not be soon enough. But when the Gen 6 4Runner comes out, it is going to be something very special. Toyota cannot afford anything less.

The GX reveal made everything clear. The GX Overtrail edition will likely retail at $82K starting and that is just a bit more than what a 23 GX with Luxury trim and off-road add ons would have cost with inflation. The LC will come in about 10K below that mark. At $72-75K starting for the LC, and $82-85 for the GX, this pair will be equipped to lure Range Rover and Mercedes clients, but not enough Jeep or Ford fans. That is why the 4Runner has been given the job.

The common group think that says the new LC and new 4Runner will occupy the same market niche and compete with themselves is absurd. Toyota is an above average marketing company. And there is enough competition in the market as is. They do not have to compete with themselves. They will differentiate these two products to the max, and as I have laid it out to you. A rudimentary application of logic and some marketing sense makes this abundantly clear especially in the light of the GX reveal. In any case, I am excited to see all these new products. And so should you.

 

Nope!
Current pricing on GX is starting at 59K.
You claim it will jump up to 82K.
In what world does that make sense? let’s start with that, and we can address other points you have raised on top of that later.

 

Based on the opinions in here, the new LC “returning” to the US sounds more like an FJ Cruiser than a Land Cruiser. It’s hard to imagine the Land Cruiser of recent years being thought of as a replacement for the 4Runner if it costs twice as much. If I think of a Bronco and Jeep competitor, the FJ cruiser seems to fit the bill. I’m not that familiar with Toyota outside of the 4Runner though…

 

To start, visit your local Lexus dealer and ask them to spec a GX with the offroad features that exist say on a 4Runner TRD. To do so, you will have to go up to a Luxury trim (+$10K) and then add features (+$2000.) Now spend the money to upgrade the tires, suspension and lift on your GX. Add that to your price. You will not be far from $82K if you account for price increases due to inflation. That is where the 2024 Overtrail will be priced. On the very first video release, the MSRP for the Overtrail was posted as $81K and change, but Lexus took that note down on the official release. And that price makes perfect sense. Cheers

 

WTF is a TRD? Are you saying TRD pro?

 

To be clear I called on 82K GX starting price that you mentioned in your own post.
Are you saying you didn’t mean that in your post? Lol.

 

The only thing about this that wouldn't make sense to me is that the Highlander already competes with the mainstream mid-size SUV (CUV) market. Also, it would be damn depressing to me to see the 4Runner be come a watered down crossover like the Jeep Grand Cherokee.

 

This has long been my fear- that Toyota would do to the 4runner what Nissan did to the Pathfinder. It was a “truck”. Now it’s a “car”. Chevy Blazer, same thing.

 

The existence of the Highlander is the only thing that makes me confident that they won't do it. It's going to be excruciating waiting for the actual reveal of the next generation.

 

nisaan can not make Up their mind lol. I don’t know how many renaming and rebranding they have done to the Infiniti sedan and suv lineup. As a company Toyota has always been more about evolution; I will be shocked if 6th gen 4R is unibody. I am sure I will not be alone.

my contention is that it seems 4R product is at an inflection point. I can not reconcile it and LC in same lineup, unless you are claiming you will eat more share of that market segment from other OEMs with these two combined and won’t cause them to compete against each other. I claim they will.

 

Does anyone think they will just end the 4Runner and fill the gap with a $50-$70k LC?

 

Ha this has crossed my mind. Can’t be many 4runner fans that wouldn’t be more than satisfied with a “Land Cruiser” if it checked all the boxes and then some. And the LC name (and history) feels like a “step up”.

But that prices a lot of people out of an entry level Toyota off road capable SUV. Rav4 and Highlander’s aren’t SUV’s in my mind. They’re cars.

 

WTF are you talking about?

What a bunch of ninnies you all are.

I was merely comparing Landcruiser and 4Runner to Wrangler and Grand Cherokee from a product strategy standpoint.

At no time did I say the 4R would become a unibody.

Jesus. Can anyone here read?

 

calm down. No need for name calling.

Since it’s a unibody design when you compared JGC with 4R, that is naturally where I went.
So what you are saying is Toyota 1. Retains 4R body on frame design and 2. Makes 4R more refined. What is the point then of retaining the frame?

 

Fellow members, this happens with every new model launch, some newbie salesmen, who thinks he knows more than the average enthusiast, joins said new model forum, posts lots of "lets baffle them with BS", and then ignores questions from members.

Yes @Naville, we knew your type from your first post and you confirmed it by refusing to reply to me asking you:

 

@Landcruiser949, posted a video on his CruisingTheLand youtube channel on June 4th. He explains he has been invited by a marketing company, "who has been engaged by Toyota" to meet with owners of Land Cruisers from 2010 and newer for a "Marketing Survey'' meeting on or about June 5th in California. He was under the impression it is to ask Land Cruiser owners what they want in a new Land Cruiser. He has to sign an NDA so he will not be able to share what he learns. You can see from his video he owns a driveway and garage full of Land Cruisers.

Those following the Toyota forums for the last year or so knew the new Land Cruiser was already being launched. In fact, user @Carmaker1, an industry insider who posts on a number of Toyota forums, has posted that he had heard about it back in October 2019 in posts going back a year or more. Any marketing surveys that affected the design would have taken place 4 or 5 years ago.

By connecting the dots here is what we can surmise, Toyota has hired Saatchi & Saatchi of Los Angeles, who has been Toyota's advertising agency for more than 20 years, to conduct the meeting, which is again, is being held in California. So what could the meeting really be about? We are about 3 to 5 months from the Land Cruiser Reveal and about 9 months from the launch. Now is the perfect time for a marketing company to start planning the marketing campaign they want to rollout. It is believed the price point of the new Land Cruiser will move down market, to compete with the Bronco Badlands and Jeep Rubicon models. There will be an entire new demographic of buyers Toyota wants to reach and what better way to rollout the new model than by touting its heritage. We know that works, look at the similar Bronco marketing campaign and the backlog of buyers.

https://youtu.be/c5Pqh1oH69Q

 

I don't see them bringing back the "FJ Cruiser". The "FJ Cruiser" was kind of an insult to the FJ Landcruisers it was supposed to be a tribute to.

If they want to compete with Jeep, they'll need something better than that, and better than any version of the Landcruiser we've gotten in the US in the last 20+ years.

I expect it to either be the 4Runner or Landcruiser if they decide to compete with Jeep, and/or the Bronco. The current 4Runner could compete with the Bronco with a few tweaks, though. That is, unless people want it to be as ugly as the Bronco. That would take more effort.

 

Good info

Really makes me wonder though if this is last year of 4Runner and the LC is stepping in to replace to fill that spot.

We are getting teasers and some little crumbs of info already about the LC but I dont recall so far any legit crumb of anything about 2024 4Runner. Unless there is an overlap of current 4Runner with the first year of LC and then the 4 Runner is retired and fades off into the sunset

 

This has been addressed numerous times. There is no reason to think the 4Runner is going away at this point.

 

Hope ya'll 6th Gen'ers are excited for your big stamped 4RUNNER on the back! just like your Bronco friends now

 

This badging is even worse lol

 

Ugh!

 

I see your Ugh! and I raise to Fugly!