5th gen vs 6th gen and why

I am sure Toyota has that info.. would be easy to derive

unfortunately.. the issue is not at startup.. ppl are driving while the engine dies

 

I think the hypothesis is that the damage can accumulate from a series of cold starts, but the ultimate failure from the accumulated damage could occur at any time.

 

I think I'm going with a 2025 Land Cruiser (if no major issues pop up by then).

I have a '21 4Runner TRD Pro with about 60k miles. Dealer just offered me $44K for it, cash. I bought it for $52K. That's only $8K loss since I bought it in October 2020. Crazy. I could literally sell it and buy a used 2023 TRD Pro with about 10k miles for another $10K (plus tax). Not sure it's worth it, though, if I plan on getting a LC in a year. As for the 6th gen 4Runner... meh. I think it's mostly ugly (especially that front bumper). And if I have to get a hybrid, might as well get the LC, which I think looks nicer, has more creature comforts, and you can fit bigger wheels/tires without hacking it apart according to the Westcott Designs vids recently put out. They fit 37s with out needing to cut anything? Crazy.

 

lol recalled https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota...022-2023-toyota-tundra-and-lexus-lx-vehicles/

 

Uh oh. Machining debris in the engine? That's a pretty big mess up.

I'm reminded of the Porsche 991.1 GT3. Had engines blowing up due to bad finger followers. Porsche eventually agreed to warranty with brand new, redesigned engines and an additional 10-year warranty. The 991.2 version is bullet proof though. Amazing engine.

 

It is a big mess up. But at least they are owning up to it and correcting the situation.


Let’s hope it’s just a QC failure, that’s pretty easy to correct and prevent in future. (Although a big pain for affected owners)it would have been much worse if it was a design defect.

 

This is almost certainly a BS excuse. Means they don't want to tell people the real cause to not spook other potentially affected parties.

Machining debris would show up in the initial oil analysis. Many people, myself included, do very early oil changes and run oil analysis to screen for issues like that.

 

I looked into this issue more, apparently it was going on since Tundra redesign and they only acted when sales cratered and resale value tanked. Apparently, last generation 21 Tundra sells for more than 22 or 23 with comparable options and mileage.

I am not convinced they have a fix yet, as I read about 22s Tundra losing second engine in 2024. This can be very complicated issue to figure out, it might even require a short block redesign in a way that would not be backward compatible.

For example, Ford RS deck issue was never fixed as it would require a new block design. It could also be very complicated tooling issue, like JLR cylinder liners breaking loose due to worn tooling going undetected. Or it can be unexpected chemical reaction, something like Nikasil issue (only with oil), ILSAC GF-6 that recently came in effect has redesigned additives.

There is a chance that 6th Gen 4Runner would also be impacted by this issue.

I am glad I am not personally affected.

 

I agree with you that its bad. I agree with you I now have it on my "dont buy" list until its resolved.

I don't think we can assume or know anything until more data comes out. "BS" is just your opinion right now. A lot of the vocal minority on internet forums do oil analysis, but I would bet those people represent only a fraction of a % of all owners out there in the real world.

Heck how many of the members here do oil analysis? And out of how many total members? Maybe 50k? And that's out of how many millions of 4Runners sold since 1984? (I looked it up and 5th gen alone is over 1million units since 2010).

 

Yo, 6th gen, I'm really happy for you, I'mma let you roll out, but 5th gen had one of the best runs of all time! One of the best runs of all time!

 

Word bro

 

The 6th gen is probably going to have the "cloud" navigation system. It's in my wife's 2023 Crown which is our "road trip" vehicle. It's definitely an improvement over the previous navigation system but....After the included free year, you must buy the subscription to Connected Services for about $15/month or you totally lose navigation. This may not be a factor in purchasing the new model but it needs to be known in advance.

 

Greedy bastards. New games all these care makers doing, trying to make you sign up for ongoing monthly membership fees after you buy their $50k plus vehicle. Soon youll have to pay $5/month to be able to roll down your windows.

 

Good news: you don't totally lose navigation without connected services, you just lose the ability to get real-time navigation help by voice from a supposedly live person. Regular navigation still works after the free year lapses, at least on a '23.

 

Not all 2023's had cloud base navigation. Even the 2024 4R's don't have it. On my wife's Crown. The exact day that the one year free trial ended, navigation could no longer be accessed. I was aggravated and went to the service department seeking enlightenment. That's what they confirmed. We don't need any of the other Connected services but that's our travel vehicle so I enrolled right there in front of him in case he wasn't correct. Viola, it then worked.

 

'23 ORP has cloud navigation. I know I don't have connected services anymore because I no longer have the green light on my SOS button. However, I still get routes downloaded from the cloud. The first shot is one I just made a few minutes ago. The second shot shows the feature that I longer have (destination assist) without connected services.

 

Not as good of a run as the horse.

 

Maybe so, but neither of my Toyotas defecate on the driveway. Can't say that about a horse that does it daily!

 

Well they now have chemically engineered horse food that leads to turbo charged leg muscles, so it looks like this 2nd generation of horses may hurt both 5th and 6th gen 4Runner sales. They’re also working on a composting shit catching sack accessory for these 2nd gen horses.

https://youtube.com/shorts/Rb-brGu-hB4?si=NYjSFxMEXjK2Y3uj

 

Question for those who prefer 5th generation, would you go with a 6th gen instead if you lived around high elevations (since turbo charged engines do very well in those thin air conditions…I believe it pretty much doesn’t effect ride quality at all with turbo)?

 

I have yet to go see a 6th gen in person but the whole thing just doesn't do it for me

Turbo or no turbo the whole point imo of the 4runner was that I could comfortably stow away the rear seats if need be and sprawl out and based on videos the seats in the 6th gen don't do that and especially if there is the hybrid version which is faster but now you're like sitting even higher..

And the whole car just looks very gaudy from the outside

 

Here's the cloud based navigation system from my wife's Crown. No physical buttons. You start Navigation by saying "Hey Toyota". When she asks you what you want, you tell her where you want to go. Most default settings must be made in the Toyota app.

 

You can do everything by voice in the ORP, too. The Toyota App doesn't have any connection to the settings, though. Only Limited and I think Pro make any decent use of the app.

 

I wouldn’t. I drive at 4,500-6,500’ regularly. It does ok, its far from sporty like an audi I had. Im sure the turbo would be more peppy. I do like a peppy turbo ride, dont get me wrong.

Im just not overly liking the new elongated look it has and the seats that dont fold flat and the rummered less back seat leg room. The IPad stuck on top of dashboard doesn’t grab me either.

I definitely will have to see it in person and test drive it but right now not feeling anynlove to buy one. Most likely a landcruiser will cost just a little more than a 6th gen Limited and I like look of it better. Bronco looks good to me as well. Both have turbo. Subaru outback wilderness has turbo also, i would put that on my list as well if you’re looking for turbo.

before i got my 4Runner I was going to get a Jeep Grand Cherokee and was waiting form their next gen to come out. Then it come out and they elongated the Jeep Grand Cherokee and now I would never buy one.

 

Nah.. plenty of NA vehicles here in the Rockies. My driving range is always in the range of 6k -10k elevation. Subaru crosstreks are dime a dozen.. 5gen 4Runners are every other vehicle you see on the road. people get by just fine… not everyone desires to drive aggressively

 

I live at 7,000 feet. The 5th gen is never fast, but electronic fuel injection matters more than the turbo at altitude. So, in other words, I would not base my decision 5th vs 6th gen on the turbo at altitude. I take the 4R up to the mountains all the time, 10,000 feet is the highest near me. Never felt it was under-powered.

People that fly and maintain a plane might have more to say about turbos at higher altitudes.

 

This is ridiculous. There is absolutely nothing about GPS navigation that requires internet connection.

Thank you for posting this, I was considering Crown for my spouse and now it is off my list.

 

I think people just use that reasoning as justification when they really just want another car.

I'm kicking around the idea of buying another Volvo wagon for a daily. Not to save fuel, but because it'll be more comfortable on my commute than the 4R. I don't necessarily want to get rid of it, but I'm kind of sick of putting 400 commuting miles on it every week.

 

I totally get that. But, there were posts in here explaining the math as if most people didn't understand that.

If I was commuting 400 miles a week for work, I would rather do it in a nice sedan than a 4Runner. I don't blame you there.

 

well i guess you dont use apple carplay or android auto and only use the built in nav. you dont need a sub for either