5th gen vs 6th gen and why

Some good points mentioned here! Also, the engine bay photo isn’t even the hybrid. I wonder what it looks like? Also, for all the added complexity of the hybrid, the mileage saving is pretty marginal, imho. Like, really, why bother? As for the increased performance - sure, if you need the extra towing capacity. But if you’re towing 6000 lbs, a 4 Runner is a poor choice anyway! Just because it’s rated for it doesn’t make it good. 4 Runners have always been anemic, they’re not muscle cars, lol. However, I still manage to get the odd speeding ticket in mine. I think I’m going to hang on to my 2018 OR and see if Toyota ever gets around to putting in a phev in a 4 Runner, which would make my local driving pretty low cost. That would be a definite improvement for me to trade up.

 

First photo is the Tacoma hybrid engine. You can tell from the bright orange which indicates high voltage components.



2022 Tundra





side note: apparently the Rav4 Hybrids 2022 and before have had problems with some key hybrid connector under the vehicle getting moisture and corroding.

This is the fix applied by Toyota in 2023.

Toyota still working out the kinks after all these years.

 

It does not even look like a engine. Too funny

 

Hopefully the Toyota engineers have done their homework and have addressed heat buildup under the hood. Maybe the hood scoop is really functional this time?

I will look forward to the reports of the 2025's being run through MOAB in the months of Sept/Oct.

 

It is possible, but simple physics are stacked against them. I race, so I know what melted plastic in the engine bay looks like - THAT engine bay is going to be HOT and things WILL MELT and warranties will be denied for people taking them rock climbing in the desert and such.

Turbo + bad engine bay layout + slow crawl speed and hood scoop won't save you. I expect popular mod will be quick release hood latches to take the hood off.

 

There are a number of high performance plastics that can easily handle the temperatures seen under the hood and can easily perform well above temperatures exceeding 250ºC. The number one goto plastic I would choose would be PEI as that material has a high resilience to organic compounds (e.g., solvents.) Think about this, what are the vehicle radiator tops and bottoms made out of? How about Coolant/Brake/P.S. reservoirs, cover plates. Pretty much anything under the hood that does not require strength for pressure (e.g., brake boosters, hydraulic manifolds, etc.) are pretty much made out of plastic.

 

The 5th Gen and 6th Gen are very different animals particularly where the engine/drivetrain are concerned. It's like comparing a Bic and a Zippo lighter. The Bic works brilliantly........for a time whereas the Zippo works pretty good but works pretty good for a very, very long time.

For those that buy a new vehicle every few years, the 6th Gen may be the perfect ticket to your nirvana. For those that have intentions of keeping a vehicle for 10, 12 or even 15 years I wouldn't hold your breath. The 6th Gen will not be around with essentially the same drivetrain for 14+ years like the 5th Gen.

Unfortunately, this is the direction the auto industry has gone for some time already and the 5th Gen was simply an outlier. The 5th Gen is the Zippo. It's not the fastest, can't tow the most and doesn't get great mileage, but it has been something for a very long time, that will get you there and back with amazing reliability.

 

Bad layout is a gentle euphemism. You are too kind. Looks like a serious after-thought or a rats nest as previously stated. I mean you have to see the humor in it. Even if it turned out to be the best thing since sliced bread most are priced out of these markets now short of selling their first born child. Supply side inflation is going to keep interest rates elevated for years probably. So many headwinds and the writing is on the wall. Violins play now. Long live the 6Runner...

You can see the 24 Tacoma's building on the lots around the county. Why would the 6th gen golf cart be any different??

 

I agree that the possibility exists for an overheating condition and I'm (somewhat) familiar with the types of stresses that racing a vehicle generates, which is why I mentioned waiting for results from high desert heat operation. Physics (or more apropos) would be thermodynamics...heat in - heat out, if you know how much heat is being generated then there is a way to 'calculate' how to transfer/dissipate that energy. If a simple radiator is enough to dissipate engine heat then how much more will it be required to dump heat from the turbo's exhaust side? FWIW, since a turbo doesn't generate but rather utilizes the heat generated by the vehicles engine there's really no additional heat source under the hood and most manufactures route the turbo exhaust side back into the vehicles exhaust plumbing.

Since most people won't be running 'baja' style RPMs while rock crawling or running trails where most of the time an engine would operating in the lower mid-band RPM range, so heat generation will be far less than racing to begin with. +100ºF desert trips and I've never seen my engine temp climb, even going through Stovepipe Wells in October where I was more concerned with treadwear due to the scalding hot road surface!

Time will tell though...

 

Here's me channeling my dad, who grew up during the depression:

Do you have a truck now?
- if yes - Do you have any savings?
- if no - Don't buy a new truck. Save your money, because I guarantee you will be struggling if you live long enough to need it.

 

If you don't have a truck or SUV, do you need it?

- If no - I want a toy. Ok, do you have any savings?
- if no - Why are you buying toys?

 

Sorry, but this is from someone that knows far too many people in their 60's that will have to work until they are unable to work and will make less and less money doing so. They'll be surviving on ever decreasing social security and medicare benefits, and blame them or not, if you have no savings you are throwing stones from your glass house. Good luck having no savings in a future that is guaranteed to be no better than the one we live in today.

Don't buy stuff you don't need.

 

Care Car Nut talking about the engine design for the new Tundra V6 hybrid.

• Cramped access on the sides of the engine because it sits so far back in the engine bay
• Already difficult to reach exhaust manifold and now equally difficult turbos attached to them
• Each bank has its own mass airflow, so there are two air filters
• Three cooling systems = Three radiators
• Integrated coolant tank for the left and right system which means if you have to drain one system, you're forced to drain, fill, and bleed both systems
• Hybrid coolant tank is separate

https://youtu.be/JJ5OrSu79Ck?si=rzK-dS5kmKVU3XGs&t=361

 

He has a lot of very good content.

 

This is not what typically discussed when talking about heat soak. Heat soak is engine block, exhaust and turbo radiating heat into engine compartment and getting other components too hot. While it could eventually result in engine overheating, this is not always true - you can have engine out of red zone and melt your ignition wires and various harnesses. Even if you don't do it right away, it does quickly degrade plastic so it becomes brittle.

Turbo is a compressor, so it does generate a lot of additional heat when providing boost. This is on top of operating by turbine getting spun by hot exhaust gasses, which do vary in temperature. Insofar as heat management, turbo is the worst case scenario. You have to cool turbo, you have to cool compressed air, and if you fail at it even temporarily - you risk preignition and internal engine damage and/or turbo oil cook-off.

 

Car care nut talking about the lack of quality paint on the grille, as well as the many different shades of black/gray going on.

7+ different colors/materials happening on all the pieces around the grill.

https://youtu.be/JJ5OrSu79Ck?si=4YMcYIA1GbN9186K&t=1309

 

if they went the same route as the tundra, the power inverter will have its own dedicated cooling system (pink fluid) and the turbo's will have an air/water intercooler setup with electric motors to circulate after engine off, and another cooling system for the engine itself.

from what i remember our tundra has like 4-5 radiators in the front for heat exchange

2 for turbos (1 ea)
1 engine
1 for a/c
1 for trans

not sure if the power inverter has its own rad since it has a fluid cooling system

 

Then there's this. Yes, radiative sources under the hood are the items needing to be addressed. That 'rats nest' under the hood not only insulates hot surfaces but also reduces efficiency by convection...which is why I'm wondering if the Toyota engineers have put pen to paper about the hood scoop. Any airflow is better than none and while thermodynamics isn't my primary vocation I could take a best guess at what airflow, volumetrically speaking, would be required given I understand what the total heat energy under the hood is. With the number of years and knowledge gained that Toyota has in developing their entire line of vehicles I cannot believe that they haven't taken these points into consideration.

That said and just for fun, I got back a short while ago and took some thermal images of the engine compartment. Temps ranged from 41ºC to around 65ºC. You can clearly see the heat distribution pattern even under the hood itself. This is just for pure speculation purposes but I can see that even without any additional air flow considerations how well temps are being held in check.

 

Don’t know folks age but if you remember the rats nest of vacuum lines under a typical 1980s hood this ain’t too bad….

 

And most of the time those locations are not chosen because there “isn’t space”

they are chosen #1 to improve weight distribution ( the battery is the heaviest single object under hood other than the engine block) and #2 to improve battery lifespan getting it out of the hot engine bay.

 

#2 is sorta right.

in the tundra if you dont get the HV, the battery is in the engine bay where the power inverter sits, if you get the HV the battery is under the rear seat driver side next to the battery pack

i imagine the 4runner will be the same, if you get the non HV it will be in place of where the power inverter sits in the engine bay, if its a HV it will go in the rear compartment.

as a side note, see the little container of pink fluid next to the power inverter, thats dedicated to the power inverter cooling.

 

#1 is absolutely the reason BMW does it in sports sedans for example. Moving the battery shifts 50lb to the back of the car and in a little 3 series can mean the difference between 50/50 or 52/48.


Maybe not a big deal in a truck but when you see it in a sport oriented car it’s usually the reason.

 

yeah i understand the issue in sports cars but then again i never commented on that reason. its probably true in the tundra and tacoma and 4runner for weight distribution. now sure how much the power inverter weighs but i am guessing the battery probably is heavier than the inverter.

but i was more concerned about your #2 reason. its not for longevity on battery life. if that was the case, they would never put it in the engine bay for the non HV versions.

and i think i edited my post after you commented and added the pics

 

I like the new power hatch but a prop rod for the hood? Come on Toyota, really?

 

which one is used more than the other? i use my hatch maybe 10x or more than me ever opening the hood. not a big deal for me. i open my hood maybe 2x a year

 

Ok, 2x/year?? You don’t check fluids more than that?

 

currently at 105k on the 4runner

nope, i do oil changes every 5k miles which comes out to about 2x a year and i have them replace any filters as needed (cabin and air).

in 11 yrs, the only thing that has failed is a oil pressure sensor that cracked and leaked oil, replaced it about 500 miles ago.

original brakes lasted about 98k miles, replaced front and back and new rotors. chem flush the cooling system, serviced the 3 diffs. looking at maybe replacing the ignitors this fall (105k on originals), outside of that everything is original (except tires, on 2nd aftermarket set now, originals lasted about 35-40k miles). still have the original fog lights and high beams, installed lasfit led low beams, brake fluid is good, still original (tech verified fluid didnt need replacing).

sits in the garage 3 days a week, only driven 4 days a week normally for 30 miles round trip. if i do go out, i usually take the wifes truck since between her and myself we are lucky to get 5k miles a year on it. her 2018 tundra only had 44k on it after 5 yrs, and right now the 23 tundra we are at 6296 miles after 14 months.

i tend to drive with no music going to work and back home. i prefer to hear if anything sounds weird while driving. surprising how much you can hear if you keep the rear seats folded flat (dont have 3rd row). i can even hear the chain holding the spare tire rattle at times since the chain links sway on windy days.

on the tundra replaced the oil at 1200 miles and then at 5k and then will every 5k miles. those turbos will destroy oil pretty fast and doing the factory oil changes at 10k will ensure you ruin that engine. i will do the same on the 4runner with the turbo.

if you want to see what 5k vs 10k oil changes will do to an engine, go find the video on car care nut.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gn5hrhTEERQ&t=161s

https://youtu.be/TJhFAwFv-O0?si=lTBYN8PyVy4Dsj4Q

 

@Oldtoyotaguy It is really good to see you here! Glad to see you contribute to the conversation!

 

Our 22 4r just turned 7K miles.
My 90 has 270k since I bought it new in 1990. Timing Chain & guides at 125k and it is pretty much due again.

 

nice, too bad no 22re but the 22r we great also