4runner vs the new Ford bronco

Agreed. If it was a Toyota Bronco instead of a Fraud, I mean Ford, Bronco. And if it was in its 4th or 5th year of production with few problems...then I'd scoop one up.

But since Ford can't even produce the hard top version of the Bronco, well, I'll wait until Ford makes something close to 'Toyota reliable' for off-road (not a chance).

The notion of a reliable Ford, where the knobs don't fall off, the coils fail, the materials rot, the transmissions don't take a crap, the hours on the trail are greater than the hours in the shop, AND the resale value isn't measured in pennies on the dollar after only a year...well that notion amuses me. Its very whimsical.

Personally, I really like the styling, the capabilities, the removable roof, lockers, etc. But then I snap out of it when I think of the disappointment Ford has been to me. A Bronco grocery getter, Mall crawler? Maybe. An incredible off road vehicle...as reliable as a 4Runner? Doubtful.

I knew the Bronco was coming...yet I just picked up a 2021 4R ORP.

I think the resale will be high on the Bronco, just like it is with the unreliable crap Wrangler, mainly because OFF ROAD vehicles remain popular and oddly enough it doesn't matter if Fiat makes them (or whomever owns Jeep right now, I've lost track.) they still sell...remarkable.

Is the Bronco Ford's FJ Cruiser without the reliability? Is it a Wrangler killer?

We'll see, but competition will be good for everyone anyway.

 

Those '02 - '05 T-birds were ugly!

Kinda weird how bad those looked when Ford eventually did such a great job with the retro style Mustangs. The latest one are absolutely gorgeous, IMO, and I wouldn't mind having one for Sunday drives (beat-runs ).

 

I'm a Ford guy, now moving to Toyota. I have a Bronco Sport ordered that if it ever gets here I probably won't buy as it has been sitting since mid June in the Mexican dessert waiting for parts. Ford says that is going to be there for at least a couple more months which would mean buying a 2021 at full price in the 2022 model year.
IMHO, the Sport is good daily small CUV that can best other CUVs off road. It would be a great bad weather road vehicle.
I have not driven Bronco, the real one, but have looked at one in person. Great styling in the 2 door, looks like a rugged of road vehicle with the 35's. Bigger than a Wrangler.
IMHO, the Big Bronco is a toy you buy just to have fun. It just isn't a practical daily or family vehicle. I tried that with a Wrangler on 35's and while a lot of fun to drive around it really didn't fill the needs as an only vehicle.
That is where the 4Runner fits in and why there are so many of them. It's a good only vehicle that can do everything comfortably. With the exception of extreme off roading which the great percentage of owners will not do.
I could see a time where we might have the 4Runner and a Big Bronco with the Sasquatch package.
But if Toyota brings back the FJ, all bets are off.

 

I'll just say two things about that. First, the Broncos running 35s are almost as doggy as a 4Runner with 35s, with gas mileage to match. They don't tell you that in the reviews.

Second, while I'd love to see a 4Runner with more off-road capability out of the box, I'd rather not give up some of the things that make a 4Runner great as a practical vehicle. I'm hearing that the Bronco is LOUD inside, mainly because of the soft top and little insulation in the top.

I'm not 18 or 25, I want something I can drive cross country to my boon dock camping destination without enduring hours of noise and rattles. The 4Runner is first and foremost a great tool for what most of us use them for, not as a hardcore off road machine, but a vehicle that can get us places.

Out of the box the 4Runner is not intended for the guys who get a kick doing the Rubicon just to see if they can, instead its intended to get people out into nature comfortably. And luckily, its not that hard to give it more ground clearance and armor to increase its capability to a reasonable extent.

If you want the 4Runner to perform like a modified Wrangler, buy a Wrangler or Bronco, but don't expect the refinement, or reliability of a 4Runner. Ford and Jeep are just aiming at a different customer. I expect the 6th Gen to be better but I don't think their target is the Jeep or even the Bronco...I think Toyota will make something for its existing customer base. After all, 4Runner buyers bought 4Runners instead of Wranglers and that's no accident.

 

Agree. The supra stung a little bit. There is also Mazda…they are making toyota’s smallest car…forget what it’s called. It’s a straight up rebadge of the mazda model

 

I really really hope so. One thing that gives hope is the toyota is serving other county’s needs as well with the current platform (same as Land Cruiser Prado overseas). I doubt they will abandon foreign markets that need true 4x4 vehicles that are decently comfy. Hopefully they will care enough to keep the US in mind and put a 4runner badge on it.

 

So, a vehicle engineered for 35's from the factory, with more power, is just as slow as a vehicle engineered for 31's, with less power?

That seems unlikely. What are you basing this off of?


Edit: As far as the fuel economy, it could be a product of the way people drive. A 4Runner can easily get over 20 MPG in stock form, but most people get much less than that. Maybe the potential for good fuel economy is there, but not for people who are in a hurry.

I fully agree with this. I never said anything about making the 4Runner suck to drive daily for the sake of more off-road capability. All I said was that they might be able to improve it.

I've said numerous times on this forum that the appeal of the 4runner, for me, is the balance of off-road capability with everyday driving comfort. In fact, I said it in this exact thread yesterday. Even in the post you quoted:

"It would be kick-ass if they could maintain the everyday comfort while making it even more trail-worthy."

 

You do realize that the FJ was just a goofy looking 4Runner with a slightly shortened wheel base, smaller interior, and worse fuel economy right? They'll have to do much better the next time if they really want to compete with the Bronco and Wrangler.

 

I didn't even know about the Mazda. That's lame.

The Supra felt like a massive slap in the face the the enthusiast crowd. Capitalizing on a legendary vehicle's name without doing the work yourself. It feels lazy.

Meanwhile, Nissan has been doing their own homework with the Z, and the upcoming 400Z looks absolutely fantastic! If I find myself standing around with a bunch of extra money in a few years, there's a good chance there will be a Nissan parked next to my 4Runner.

 

I get the impression that if you took away the 35's and went stock vs stock without all the gadgets, the bronco would struggle to keep up with the 4runner without all those buttons and gizmos.

 

Time will tell once enough Broncos get out there in the hands of off-road enthusiasts.

 

Yes — no doubt the Bronco’s biggest differentiator was the availability of 35s from the factory, which is why Jeep immediately also started offering it. If that was important to me, I think I would get the Jeep.

I’ve had as daily drivers four Hondas, a Subaru, a Toyota, and a Ford (a 1990 Explorer). The Explorer was fun to drive, but it was by far the worst car I’ve ever owned in terms of time it had to spend in the shop for stupid stuff before it was even 5 years old. I’ve never considered owning a Ford since then until the new Bronco was announced.

I want to believe Ford has improved, but the roof fiasco and many lukewarm reviews of general fit and finish are big red flags for me.

 

If you consider HP and Torque, even when you change the gearing the 4Runner with large tires is slowed. Yes, the Bronco will work better because its engineered for larger tires, but that won't negate the drag of larger tires. So, of course the Bronco will be better able to handle the large tires and weight, but is being slowed by the bigger tire. Its a trade off.

I think it is very difficult to make a serious off road vehicle that is also a good every day driver. Thirty-five inch tires sap power because of the straight physics of a large tire. I've heard that the Bronco with the large tires does not have the perceived power of the Bronco without the large tires. This makes perfect sense to me. Even when you change the gearing you have the physics of rolling resistance and the weight of the tire/wheel to overcome.

Its a trade off you make for serious off roading, but does the average 4Runner owner want the extra hassle and expense? Because the decked out Bronco IS going to be significantly more expensive.

There are other problems with oversized tires on the road. Keeping them balanced, road noise, tire cost, and tire wear. I think a lot of people will buy the Bronco with the big tires who live in LA for instance (Mall crawlers), and will find out it ain't rainbows. For a daily driver? I don't know. Most of these people will buy them because they make a certain impression.

Rolling resistance physics is a bitch. Larger tires impact fuel mileage, and you cannot get around that. Larger tires on the Bronco will impact fuel mileage. This is well understood in automotive engineering.

I think Ford is betting that a large percentage of the crowd that buys the Bronco with 35s, is not going to be overly concerned with the reduction in economy.

Toyota is great at building off road vehicles that are comfortable AND reliable everyday drivers. Toyota probably knows more about how to do this than ANY manufacturer in the world.

Ford is taking a huge gamble and I hope they are successful, but its a marathon not a sprint. They are trying to grab market share from many players and that's gonna be tough.

 

Ford is Ford, a new model won't magically change their core culture.

Having said that, apparently their trucks are still getting positive reviews.

Before my discovery of Toyota in the late 90's, I was a Ford driver. Owned several and they all started having serious (expensive) mechanical issues at around 50k miles on the odometer.

Although I could have possibly looked beyond the mechanical failures as the norm, due to my blind ignorance at the time. The straw that broke the camels back was the lack of customer support at the Ford dealerships.

I remember back when I bought my first Toyota Tacoma in 97'. I had just moved to a new city/state and took it in for a routine oil change. The service advisor informed me that they replaced something with the clutch under a service bulletin and also replaced the water pump because it was leaking a little. No charge and no worries. Needless to say, I was completely blown away at the level of customer care that I received.

I've been a Toyota fan boy ever since.

 

People are going to the malls less and less. We need a new phrase for mall crawler.

 

There's always "pavement princess"

 

The mall crawlers are still there, they never went inside anyway.....it's either the mall or the walmart..

 

Been watching some Green Acres DVDs. Mr. Kimball’s Bronco was sweet in retrospect. Probably pretty rare today.

 

The FJ cruiser has an incredible following and exceptional re sale value. I would buy one ina heartbeat if they start selling in the USA again.
Btw , They are still built today and sold in the Arab countries. Want to drive a 2022 Fj cruiser anyone? It's Just a plane ride away!

 

Yes, the wife and I both like the goofy shape.

I do expect it to be improved if they bring it back.

 

I realize they are popular. I just think it's funny when people act like they're in another league from the 4Runner when they're basically the same vehicle.

They definitely have a distinct look. I wanted on when they came out, but after looking at the interior I lost interest. That's not to say they're not cool. Just my personal opinion.

If Toyota gave it a real capability advantage over the 4Runner, it would be more appealing to me.

 

I’ve got an FJ and 4Runner. I love em both, the FJ is with my youngest in LA. The weird part that I really like on the FJ is the interior because my kids spills EVERYTHING in that damn car and it’s easy to clean up. My biggest issue is the darn windshield. We’ve had to replace it 5 times since we got it because of all the rocks kicked up by semi’s. And none of the cheap windshield repair company’s will do it anymore because of the trim at the top is so much of a PIA.

quick side note: my daughter is playing volleyball in college and her teammate from Colorado has an FJ as well. So they are living the dream.

 

Yes, until you rolled it.

 

I have owned three Ford trucks, two Rangers and a F150. I will never own another Ford vehicle no matter what they look like or all the hype that marketing can muster.

 

Nissan needs to bring the Xterra back, then 4Runner will have some proper competition.

 

Not to mention, that after the first two years of FJ production, Toyota sold as many FJ's in a year as Jeep sold Wranglers in a MONTH.

After the initial hype wore off, hardly anyone actually bought them because they're dumb, for all the reasons you mentioned.

 

It was a cool idea to try to bring back the old school Landcruiser in a way. But, Toyota half assed it, and it just didn't live up to the hype. Imagine a smaller 4Runner that somehow gets WORSE gas mileage! No, thanks!

 

A 2-door 5th gen would be cool enough to be honest.

 

I'd love to see Toyota do something like this. Maybe an homage to the original 4Runners.

 

I never warmed up to the FJ. I know it was a good and respected vehicle, but I just didn't like the styling.