4runner vs the new Ford bronco

They are. At least their small trucks are.

I've had 3 that went beyond 200,000 miles with no major problems.

Can't speak to the rest of their lineup.

 

The Frontier is super reliable and the VQ40 is (was) a terrific engine.

 

I happen to agree that the new Defender is cooler than the Bronco, but you inevitably get lambasted when you say so publicly. Then someone whips out a picture of an old 110, even though they've never driven one and would be driven insane by the 134 hp V8.

 

Given that well equipped Wranglers and Broncos crest $50K pretty easily, the 110 looks like a decent good deal. I configured a 110 for $53K on the LR website and it wasn't missing anything I'd find important. I'd never trade my 4R for one, but if I had ~50K to spend on this kind of vehicle I'd certainly consider the Defender over a Jeep or Bronco.

Looks like it would be much more pleasant on road than the Jeep while being just as good off road. LR has made a big deal about this being the best off road beast they've ever produced and top of the class in the market, and they do know what they're doing. So it would be surprising if it wasn't at least in the same ballpark as the Wrangler and Bronco capability wise. They're also making a big deal about its durability, so who knows maybe a miracle as occurred and the thing is actually reliable (though I do find it hard to believe that LR can make rock solid computer and electrical systems...)

 

My wife had a 2014 Murano. It needed a new trans at 100k so we got it replaced with a rebuilt one at the dealership. In 2019, she got a brand new Murano bc she loved the first one. I ended up driving her '14 for 6 months before the SECOND trans started leaking again. Which lead to me getting my 4Runner. So if it wasn't she the crappy trans, I wouldn't have my T4R. So for that alone, I love Nissan lol

 

My only Nissan was an early 2000s Sentra and it developed engine trouble with only like 15000 miles on the odo. We traded it in. I have heard good things about the Frontier and the Z cars, but would be wary of most of their other offerings.

I’ve been bad about keeping cars a long time. My 4R is intended to be one I do keep, to anchor the fleet while satisfying my Jones for new and sporty things by buying less expensive stuff as DDs and for fun. The cars I kept the longest were a 2000 Accord and a 2009 BMW 328i. One was around 90k and the other 80k when I traded them, and neither had any issues whatsoever. Of course, that’s not a lot of miles. But still they both seemed rock solid. In my experience (again with not a lot of miles on any of them) Hondas and BMWs have been excellent, Subarus have been so so and VWs sketchy. My Land Rover was the worst. Was in the shop so often I Lemon Law’d it. My 4R is my first Toyota. Don’t even know how I managed to buy so many other cars and never a Toyota until now.

 

Yeah, I had one on order, but cancelled it and got my $5k deposit back. I had second thoughts about reliability, especially in the remote parts of Northern Canada where I have some trips planned. If an expensive vehicle like that breaks down somewhere remote, it could be a logistical nightmare getting it serviced, getting parts and getting it home. LR advertises them in remote places, but they don’t make much commitment to getting you out of there if they break down and in Canada, the dealerships are in only in major cities thousands of miles away. In contrast, a 4 Runner can be supplied parts in some pretty remote places. For example there’s a Toyota dealership in Whitehorse, Yukon.

 

The Nissan CVT transmissions around that era were terrible. I had a Murano rental car around that time and it was a total piece of shit. They have supposedly gotten better though.

But my only experience with owning Nissans was with Frontiers......which treated me very well. The draw was that you could get similar reliability to the Tacoma, but pay quite a bit less. They had pretty terrible resale though when compared to the Tacoma.

 

That's if you fit comfortably in a Tacoma. They have a bizarre seating position that was a total deal killer for me.

 

All Tacoma's or a certain gen?

I was always pretty comfortable in a Tacoma.

 

Sounds like you did the smart thing. The Defender looks like it could be a great toy or second or third car, but I couldn't imagine relying on one as my main vehicle. Maybe after we've seen them in action for awhile -- I'd like to believe that LR has gotten its act together and made a new classic. But the track record sure is poor. Plus, as you note, even if it's a great car the service and repairs it does need would be both expensive and inconvenient.

I love that the 4R is sold throughout South, Central and North America, and that it has been mostly unchanged for more than a decade. Really gives you confidence that you could find parts and knowledgable mechanics in all the regions in which you might drive the thing. I found the Chevy Tahoe appealing for similar reasons (plus presumably any given repair would be less expensive), but as described elsewhere in this forum I determined that the 4R was a better choice for me overall.

 

4 Runners are constantly criticized by automotive journalists for being “long in the tooth” haha, which is fine by me. They’re pretty easy to work on, and even a non Toyota mechanic in a remote place could get one running if it broke down. And as you point out, Singleminded, there are enough 5 gens out there now, that there’s a good supply of used parts for the foreseeable future.

 

I’ve had a few Hi Luxe’s and Tacoma’s and the seating position is one of the unique things I really like. The seat kind of sits on the floor, like an old MGB. I’m 6’2”. My last vehicle before this 4 Runner was a 2015 TRD Sport.

 

bought a 2007 Tacoma for my son a few years back. I'm an avg size guy with broad shoulders, the drivers seat was too narrow, the bolsters(?) on the sides were too confining. Aside from that, 100% satisfied.

 

Those that want a Lard Rover or Range Rover have never actually owned one for more than a few months. Horrible, horrible reliability. Expensive to repair and ridiculous to work on. Every time I see one, I assume the owner is either ignorant or rich enough to not care.

Nissans used to be great, and I was a fan boy in the 90's. Then they got bad in the early 2000's and have remained unreliable since. My girlfriend drives a 2018 Rogue with 30k miles and it is constantly having something go wrong with it. But, her previous vehicle was a Juke that only had one or two minor issues, so...

 

Ok, I don’t know much about Range Rovers, and LRs 3&4 do have reliability problems if you are a clueless owner, using a dealership in a reactive way every time there’s a problem. The reason LRs have their adherents, is that if you have some mechanical acumen, LR problems are known, and can be anticipated and repaired before breaking down and if you do that, they’re surprisingly reliable. There’s a huge after market for parts, and lots of people fixing them around the world, and they’re not really that hard to work on. It’s partly a British thing, for sure. But anyone who has worked on British vehicles will have no difficulty fixing them. Personally, I think LR3s & 4s, are the most under rated and inexpensive vehicles out there for a solid overland or off road daily driver. They really depreciate, and now you can buy a lot of vehicle for just a few bucks. They also don’t seem to rust much. Great vehicles off road, and fun to drive. Lots of good jokes about LRs though, that all the LR guys know - like “how do you know when your LR is out of oil? Answer - it stops leaking!”

 

I think when i see either one of them do this i will be impressed. https://youtu.be/gZu9vYkVWVk

 

Typo or intentional?

 

Impressive indeed. But modified as much as that Jeep's been, why couldn't they? The LR has better approach angles than the Jeep even before lifting lit, adding massive tires, removing the bumper... So you could get the same amount of ground clearance etc. Or would they be incapable of that because of the IFS?

 

That Jeep can sure climb rocks, but for everything else you might want to do I think a new LR Defender would be better. Probably more dependable too, but the juries still out on that one.

 

Sorry for the late reply on this. Believe it or not, the skids didn't affect my gas mileage. I do mostly highway driving, and drive with a light foot, and I'm still consistently getting right around 21 MPG with it.

I did a 300 mile road trip last month, and believe it or not, that tank I averaged 23.1.

 

You're talking about the new Defender, right? If so, no. There's no way you're going to be able to lift that thing enough to fit a really big tire on it without completely re-engineering the suspension, and also it has too much body work in front of the front tires to ever have an approach angle as good as a Jeep's.

If you look at a Jeep with a stubby front bumper and larger tires, the thing basically has a vertical approach angle if the driver approaches from even a slight angle. You can't really get that on any other modern vehicle that I can think of unless you completely hack the front end off.

 

I averaged 23.1mpg once. Going downhill

 

Yep. A friend of mine was shopping for a new SUV and asked what my real-world average MPG was and when I told him 18, his mouth dropped. He bought a Honda Pilot.

 

* Note * a Honda Pilot is a nice vehicle but not an SUV! Lol

 

Yeah, his is very nice with leather and all the bells and whistles for the same price as my 4Runner, but it couldn't do what I would need it to do.

 

I drove a brand new pilot awhile back as a rental. OMG it was awful. The throttle response is absolutely insane. Push the gas and it just doesn’t move. Very slow to start moving. Like, absurdly slow. And if you press harder to make it go, and you have to press it a long ways, it takes a couple seconds, then the RPM’s skyrocket. Super weird. I think it’s like a 9 speed trans or something like that. Awful. Absolutely awful.

 

Noticed the busted CV axle on the ground.

That's a crazy wall of rock for sure.

 

Yes. Yes.

I had a 2011 Frontier that was rock solid. Never had a problem. I’d still buy a Frontier over a Tacoma all day long (that 3.5L in the Taco is just terrible). My wife currently drives a 2018 Rogue AWD and we’ve never had a single problem with it. I personally lump Nissan and Toyota in the same category - both have put out some great vehicles and some not-so great vehicles. I’m anxious to see if a new battle brews between the Supra and the upcoming 400Z akin to the days of the Supra Turbo vs. 300ZX TT back in the day. I guess that would be a battle between BMW and Nissan though.

This’ll piss off the 4Runner neophytes - probably the second worst vehicle I’ve ever owned was my ‘95 4Runner. New transmission at 100k miles, second transmission at 150k miles (both done by the Toyota dealership in Augusta, GA) and a cracked head at 165k that led to its ultimate demise. Bought that rig in 2005 with 90k on the clock and thought I’d have it with me to this day. 3.slow engine and all. Oh well.

The worst was a ‘97 Jeep Wrangler.

 

Just don’t buy the Jeep with the diesel engine. Apparently that is a nasty little grenade that FIAT snuck in there when the Cummins fans weren’t looking.