Recovery Hooks/Points

I revised my post above and guessed 1/2” thick looking at the welded loops and comparing. I measure the welded loops on my ORP. That is very impressive! The additional thickness is very beneficial for lateral loads. These guys at Apex did a good job designing these recovery points.

 

Thanks for that heroically long and detailed post. As my experience is as a rigger rather than an engineer, some of it was over my head, especially with regard to common design factors. One thing we haven’t discussed is the strength of threads versus welds. A subject about which I am woefully ignorant. My seat-of-the-pants rigger’s spider sense tells me that in the case of the Treaty Oak recovery points and an angled pull, when pulled to the outboard side the threads would fail and the recovery point would pull out. I suspect if it were to be rigged so that the pull was across the front of the truck, inboard, that the Treaty Oak hardware would perform better, as it would be pulled into the frame of the vehicle, instead of away from it. That made me wonder about the benefit of a bridle at all for use in an angled pull. I started to play around with an app called “Rig Rite” and found the following: if the angle of the pull is such that the point where the main strap attaches to the bridle is outside the width of the recovery points, the force on the long leg of the bridle approaches 100% while the force on the short leg approaches zero. That would mean that in many cases the use of a bridle is of no benefit. Thoughts?

I did some measuring too! The loop diameter is a hair over ⅝ of an inch. That means that each loop is attached to the frame by 8 inches of weld!

 

I would say the main benefit of a bridle is to avoid all the load going to one side. Therefore minimizing the chance of failing one attachment point. If the tow strap is able to slide over the bridle it should naturally avoid loading only one side. If it can’t slide there may be a low likelihood of keeping both sides loaded at all. Of course if when you get stuck the circumstances prevent getting the tow vehicle near centered, all you may have is one side to pull on. Which is why you would want a setup that can take as much load as possible without damaging the vehicle. IMO the Apex type setup gives you that initial condition. You may bend the Apex plate but not damage the vehicle frame. I didn’t put any calipers on those loops; 5/8” is nice size. Again, my impetus for an Apex type recovery point is to get the tow load (including lateral loads) into the frame without permanently bending any parts of the frame. The loads transmitted thru those welds either go all the way to the ground (friction, mechanical interference, rocks, ruts, etc) OR cause movement of the vehicle. The tie-down loop welds may be able to impart more load into the lower radiator support than it can resist without bending, particularly lateral loads. In properly designed welds, the weld metal is as strong as the base metal. The weld material and size of the weld is designed to transmit the design load. What we all wonder is, “what is the design load for these tie-down loops?” Toyota language implies it’s limited to something less than recovery loads. I wonder has anyone on the forum permanently bent any of these tie-down loops when getting their 4 Runner unstuck? Surely someone has some interesting pictures?

 

Interesting question.

 

I, most certainly, would like to see pictures of bent/ pulled off/ failed "tie down loops" myself. One of the dedicated recovery point vendors has a picture of one that failed due to rust and are using it as a marketing tool, but that's it for me. I think a first person account might be acceptable, but doubt that anyone has researched a failure with the level of expertise/ experience that this thread has considered.
Thanks so much Cap and rmiked for your excellent contributions. I'd also like to do a shout out to Cap for creating a dedicated thread on the subject of tie down loops.

 

A fellow on another forum hit a hit a hidden stump and dented the front crossmember. He decided to fabricate a new one, and decided to re-use the loops. So he cut them out of the damaged crossmember. I found it interesting that the loops are so well reinforced inside the crossmember.

 

Look pretty darn stout to me. I am not an engineer.

 

I wouldn't be afraid of using the tie downs for recovery. Just don't be stupid. Don't stand near any strap or winch cable when doing a recovery. Use common sense if you lack common sense, search youtube.

 

This reminds me of two old adages that seem to dovetail together after reading your remark:

Good judgment comes from experience,
and experience comes from bad judgment.​

and

A smart man learns from his own mistakes.
A wise man learns from the mistakes of others.​

 

@Captain Spalding @McSpazatron @Thatbassguy
I'm so close to completion, CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHAT CRUSH BAR BOLT TORQUE IS??
Thank-you

 

Hey buddy, any idea what the crush bar bolts are to be torqued at?

 

It looks like 22 ft-lb on this diagram, although I'm not positive if those are the mounting bolts.

https://www.to4runner.net/components-1322.html

 

I love that website. Even though i have no idea hkw they got that info or if it’s all accurate. Let’s hope so because I have suspension bits held up with torque values from that website lol

 

I also came across this one but it doesn't say what year (although I'm not sure that matters) https://www.to4runner.net/installation-1326.html

 

You guys are the best, so fast! This website man.
I should have reached out last night already

 

RE: getting unstuck, I don't have after market recovery hooks/points ... yet, and based on comments i don't think i would ever use the factory installed tow hooks, but would it be possible to attach recovery straps around the frame at the point where the factory tow hooks are attached to the frame (where the after market recovery points would attach to)? Structurally that's the strongest point on the frame so would attaching (wrapping) the recovery line to the frame cause damage? First plan is to get after market recovery points and have professionally installed. Back-up plan until then is to heed sage advice.

 

@Ocean_Watcher
Non-KDSS?

 

Ocean_Wartcher, I have not crawled under , with skids removed, to see if you could get straps around the structural member to which the stabilizer bars are attached. If you could , that would be good. I ordered the Apex Overland recovery points (non-KDSS) yesterday and should be installing them within a week. I’ll look under them when installing these, and see if it’s possible. I would point out that if you get stuck and need to pull your 4 Runner from the front, it will be practically no clearance between the ground and the frame. And it will be very muddy likely.

 

yes, non-kdss.

 

Did this to mine. For looks only. Add one to the right side and got them powder coated.

 

I got my Apex Overland recovery points today. Very impressive! 1/2” thick plate at pulling location. All other plate minimum 1/4” thick. Not a scratch. Nice edge distances on bolt holes.

 

Please let us know how the installation goes.

 

What does everyone think of these?

NYTOP Front Recovery Points

 

I like the eased inside edges on these making them more soft shackle friendly. I have the Apexes also and have yet to recover from them but the one criticism I have off the bat are the inside edges are a bit sharp. I was told to use them with bow shackles in a recovery class. I’ll also add the instructor liked how the Apexes were mounted on the frame.

 

I ordered the NYTOP front and rear recovery points, which are supposed to ship in the next month or so—just in time for the snow season here in Central Oregon. I also picked up four Maxtrax Lites, a bit shorter than the full-size Maxtrax traction boards but still long enough to be very effective. I also picked up a 10' bridle, a 7/8" x 30' kinetic rope, and soft shackles from Sandy Cats/KineticX. Many hardcore 4x4 drivers love Factor 55, Yankum, etc., but the KineticX setup was far more affordable, and I picked this up for a worst-case scenario. I don't plan to be in situations often where I would be stuck, requiring a kinetic pull. Better safe than sorry.

I didn't get stuck often in my GMC 2500HD, but when I did, a shovel and some 2x6s under the tires were usually enough to get me going. The Maxtrax should be even better for solo recoveries, even though I doubt it will often be an issue in my 4Runner with much better tires that I ran on my GMC. I did upgrade the wheels and tires on my GMC, along with a 3" lift. On my 2500HD, I am now running Maxxis Razr tires, which look very capable AT tires. All in all, my vehicles have leveled up considerably from years past!

 

Keep us updated should you ever use those recovery points.

 

It took about 1 hour, no power tools. Just follow the instruction video. You can find it on Utube or scan the QR code they send in box. Very nice.

 

I hope to not need them, but I will post pictures of the install.

 

The Apex recovery point plate edges are cut at 90 degrees. I am using a D-ring shackle which is rubber coated. I’ll probably just keep them in my recovery bag with recovery straps. They may make some noise while driving.

 

Smart move
I have one made by a member @Inv4drZm (or his brother) from other forum on rear driver
Wonder if I can squeeze the towpoint on rear passenger

on the topic, before I finally post some stuff for sale on the correct section
I do have brand new apex points for KDSS for sale