2022 needle bearing issues

I've done 3 in the last week lol. They come in waves.

 

Here are videos of the driver side vs pass side stock height axle movement:
Driver (needle bearing side)
https://youtu.be/_vBiJjaLpAY

Pass side
https://youtu.be/-jc69p0N2O4


This is what I am talking about the play being excessive stock

 

So strange that this issue persists through the years. There must be a reason why they stick with the same part? I can’t make it make sense.

 

There is, MPG. Sleeve has more friction than Needle Bearing. I lost 1 MPG after sleeve install (18 before 17 after, consistent for years now). Regardless, I'll take ECGS bushing any day over poorly engineered bearing. Shame on you, Toyota!

 

Hey, super new to the forum and first time 4Runner owner. I have the 2022 Trail Edition with 15K on it. Had the rumbling noise and took it to the dealership. They rode in it with me, put it up on a lift and ordered a new diff. On the spot. No Hassel, no questions asked. Not happy about it on a brand new vehicle but dealership took care of it. Just wanted to share my experience.

 

That's good news. Mostly. Hopefully the 2nd diff will last longer. Same design.

 

You may want try check out the thread below. So far replacing those plastics worked for me.
Still testing out since last week. No noise. Waiting for temperature to drop to lower 30F before reaching a conclusion.

The 2022/2023 have a superseded differential from Japan.. not same as the older ones

https://www.4runners.com/threads/plastic-noise-while-moving.29304/

 

But still use a needle bearing. If 2022/2023 have a superseded differential, why would @4runningnoob have to get a new differential? His is a 2022

 

Pardon my limited knowledge. Just out of curiosity i went to the parts department with my VIN.
Was told that my differential was new and only available from Japan. Backordered. Without any delivery dates.
That was last year though.

Also. I wanted @4runningnoob to be aware of the part numbers been ordered and installed.
The service Department might be going the extra miles to please the customers or just making a quick buck.

Best of luck.

 

I don't believe the service department replaces just the bushings... Right

 

So I agree that a service department would replace the differential, not just the needle bearing. My point in Post #217 above is that a replacement differential will not insure that the needle bearing won't prematurely wear again. New diff, same design, same needle bearing. Hopefully someone at Toyota figured out the old differential was not cutting the mustard, as they say, and replaced it with one that has tighter tolerances, but I wouldn't put any money on it.

 

Technically speaking, the differential itself isn’t the problem. The needle bearing isn’t really the problem either, as a brand new one with zero wear will make noise. The problem is the excessive play between the CV as it sits in the bearing. This is the reason a new bearing with the same dimensions doesnt reliably solve the problem.

Toyota could just as easily make CV axles that are a tiny bit bigger in outside diameter where they go into the needle bearing, or source needle bearings that are a tiny bit smaller inner diameter. Instead, they replace a differential that (by all indications) has the the same CV/needle bearing clearances.

Their decision to “solve” the problem by replacing the entire diff assembly (presumably because something about replacing a needle bearing in the field is problematic for them?) unfortunately just gives the impression that something is wrong with the diff. The diff itself is pretty solid.

I just don’t get toyota’s reasoning.

 

Bingo to you both. Both are dead on! @glwood54 unfortunately no, nobody has made the call to fix it at Toyota. The 2023's have the same issue from the showroom floor. Super disappointing.
@McSpazatron dead on... The tolerance is 100% the issue paired with needle bearings that are not as strong as roller/barrel etc bearings or bushings. I am going to pull our CV and document the wear on the ECGS bushing when we have 50k miles on ours as well. Curiosity is gunna kill the axle seal haha!

 

Thank you. Some time back, I asked if anyone could show the difference in the needle bearing vs the ECGS bushing once the axle was out, and the bearing/bushing slid onto the axle...would you happen to have a video showing the two items' different tolerances, perhaps?

 

Yeah, I think I put them in a previous post on here....

https://youtu.be/wQ_HYAR1nwI
https://youtu.be/qL7dinjq1qU

https://youtu.be/_vBiJjaLpAY
https://youtu.be/-jc69p0N2O4

 

Thank you. If you did post earlier on here, I apologize, I totally missed it.

 

I just ordered 4 more to keep in stock. Nobody in our area (Sacramento CA) actually stocks these for emergency so I keep some on the shelf in my backyard shop for working on forum trucks and Runners

 

I had the ECGS bushing upgraded preventatively on my 2021 while suspension being upgraded. No issues and only 10k on the truck but worth it to me to upgrade with superior part preventing the issue from happening.

 

I have not experienced this issue (yet).

I have almost 14k miles on mine. Can this issue show up after tens of thousands of miles or if it hasn’t appeared at the beginning does it mean it’ll be fine?

why some people have the issue brand new while others don’t?
Are some of the parts defective to begin with?
From what I read here it almost seems like it doesn’t matter, the Toyota part is a faulty design. If so, why it doesn’t happen to everyone right away and is it just a matter of time before this issue occurs in any 4R?

thanks for educating me on the subject as I have no idea about it.

 

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/needle-bearing-yes-replace-it-ecgs.716338/page-11#post-28504506

Jump up a few posts to see the videos I took of the play etc

 

Thanks!

When you say “I've seen stock and a thousand miles making noise and I've seen 2-in lifted with 50k miles not making a sound”, why do you think there is such a difference on what’s supposed to be the exact same part?

 

In my opinion, it is geometry and tolerances. A lift will increase the likelihood of feeling/hearing the issue because it increases the angles and pressure that the needle bearing sees. In my opinion, every, Toyota has the issue wether the driver feels it or not (look at the videos I posted with a brand new truck, no lift, and how much the driver moves vs the passenger). I consider the play excessive and unacceptable direct from the factory. Eventually parts wear and tolerances open up. It just may not be felt or get bad enough to be a real issue for some. Personally, I see the ECGS bushing as a preventive mod. I have pulled and changed one differential for a customer that the needles have grenaded into and it was not pretty. Big money repair for a relatively easy prevention.

 

That got me intrigued on my 2022 T4R TRD Sports too. Was hearing annoying groaning/clicking noises on cold days but stops when temps reach 70F outside.
Finally isolated the noise to the engine splash guard and clip pins. (through this forum)
Pardon me if this is totally unrelated. Newbie.

It was driving me nuts for almost a year of ownership. Until now.

 

Just got mine done from @MyWyfsRnnr. My symptoms were atypical (vibrating only from 45-48) but nonetheless when pulled it off I had grind marks and some shavings. 2022 ORP with 12k. Lifted 2" KDSS.

He also had some late mileage stock Runner examples (old bushings) on the wall. Lift just doesn't matter folks.

 

Is your symptom now gone?

 

Yessir. Smooth as can be.

Before it was a synchronous vibration resembling running over the "wake up" bumps near the highway shoulder.

 

My ECGS bushing is coming Saturday. Going to install next Monday. 2019TRD ORP. Stock suspension until about 58K. 2" front lift installed. Now at 75K and get noise and vibration around 65-72MPH. Sound and vibration goes away when in 4 Hi. Thanks to all the good info on this forum!

 

Mine issue showed up early at 6,000 miles. Dealer replaced the front diff, I am at 42,000 miles now and it is still quiet. Next go around will be the bushing install. On the original diff I had the noise and vibration at around 35-45 mph in cold weather, went away in 4HI.

 

Consider changing to the bushing whenever you have some time and are feeling frisky.... Better to be preventative than forced at an inconvenient time. It is a shame that Toyota is still installing these diffs and just swapping when there is an issue. Seems like a waste of resources when there is such an easy fix out there.

 

Did the bushing upgrade job today as part of the 30K service.

ECGS makes a great kit. The oil seal and bushing installers are easy to use.

As some others have mentioned, the puller had to be ground down just a bit to be able to fit behind the bearing. No big deal.



Job took 3 hours. Probably spent 30m of that making a puller for the front hub assembly. Steering wheel puller I had was not wide enough. Hut assembly is already drilled and tapped for puller screws.



Needle bearing was intact and pulled with no problems.



After new bushing installed.



Truck drives nicely. Vibration/hum really hadn't become much of an issue. Was intermittent and rare. Just wanted to take care of it pre-emptively as the truck is a bit lifted and we take it off road and tow a camper pretty frequently (why we have this truck).

Jason