Hate to admit it, but the Ranger Raptor will destroy Taco/4R TRD Pro/Trailhunter sales

Let's be honest here. Toyota is cooked.

Hate to admit it, but the Ranger Raptor will destroy Taco/4R TRD Pro/Trailhunter and LC sales like KDot destroyed Drizzy

Yes, Ford reliability is iffy, but from what I've been reading the V6 ecoboost engine lineup has been pretty decently reliable. A few knicks here and there but nothing catastrophic. Same for the 10-speed transmission.

But, Toyota is pricing themselves out and Ford will destroy Toyota.

I wonder if Toyota would slash prices like Tesla has just to stay competitive. But all I'm saying is if I'm buying another off-roader down the line... I'd rather have the turbo V6 over a turbo I4 that costs nearly $10k more.

Come on Toyota, wake up!

 

Opened a can of worms

 

Not wrong. Ford is stepping up their game in the performance and recreational driving game. My son-in-law is a GM at a Ford dealer and word on the street is Ford corporate wants to own these markets.

 

This is good to hear. This will force Toyota to remain competitive and hopefully pull a Tesla and slash prices. As-is, the Taco/4R TRD Pro/Trailhunters are KIA. Who in their right minds would buy a turbo 4-popper over a turbo V6??? Gotta be on crack at that point.

 

Anyone who is anyone, and has been around more than 2 years, knows the 2RZ (2.4) has been around and in the tacomas since 1995 when it replaced the 22RE
Anyone who is anyone, knows the 2RZ comes with a forged bottom end and LOVES boost
Anyone who is anyone, knows the tacoma boys have been boosting the 2RZ since like 2000 and with a stock fuel pump, some bigger injectors, you can run 200,000+ miles on 14psi of boost from a home made ebay kit with sketchy (very poor) tuning and be reliable as crap and get 20+mpg all day long doing it.
Anyone who is anyone, knows when you put the right parts together, the 2RZ will hold 400whp on a stock bottom end, stock crank, stock rods, stock pistons, better head gaskets and studs, and a good turbo setup. The trans is the weak link in the system at that point the manual trans doesnt have enough surface area to get a clutch to hold any more than that. Even the Spec stage 3+ is slipping in 4th and 5th when you get to this kinda power. STOCK BOTTOM END, 20+mpg, 24psi on a big turbo, 400whp, and reliable.

I personally absolutely hate the 2.4 is what is coming in all of the tacoma and 4runners, i mean i absolutely hate it, but i am not mad about it because those engines are practically bulletproof to about 250,000-300,000 miles. Bad gas is the long term killer, detonation eventually mushrooms the rod bearings out and you get rod knock out of them. This is the thing toyota is going to fix with a factory turbo system and a good knock sensor that can pick up detonation and pull timing to keep up with reliability.
t.me/guywhoknowsboost

 

Ford is a throw away. Toyota is a keeper.

after you’ve owned both multiple times and lived with them you’ll see

Ford’s achilles heel is it’s transmission and reliability. Ford will quietly retire bad transmissions and engines about every seven yrs. Short range strategy common to American car companies. Toyota will refine and update an engine and transmission and run it for decades. Long range strategy. Raptors are cool for about a minute. Then the plastic breaks. Toyotas are cool for about 10yrs until you are just tired of driving the same truck every day. Then you buy a Raptor. Then it breaks. And then you go back to Toyota. Thats 2 toys to 1 ford in one lifetime. Look at units sold historically.

I’ve owned three fords. All of them required major repairs (engine, transmission, or both) before 125k miles. I’ve had two Toyotas. Regret selling the first one. Driving the second one currently.

my 3c

 

Nope, watch the Tacoma outselll it by a mile, now go home boy

 

I think it'll come down to how dealers treat these, if Ford dealers give the Ranger Raptor the Focus RS treatment and kill the MSRP advantage it might end up being a boon for the Frontier or GM twins.

I think the hybrid powertrain will be a plus over the turbo V6 for a buyer, but those who care about the V6 and simplicity probably would be looking at the naturally-aspirated Frontier anyway. (but note that the 3.8L is direct injection)

(RIP Drizzy, hell of a ride the past couple days.)

 

I remember when the toyota little 4x4 trucks hit the market in the 80s… and all my redneck buddies laughed and laughed and laughed…

and watched those Toyotas last for decades… and the trucks my buddies were driving just melted into the weeds.

I still regret not buying one then.

and to make it worse… I bought a nissan truck once. Oh my. That wasn’t a good call. Price was tempting but when I changed the oil it used to look like glitter. And when I changed the diff oil at like 60k (early) it was metallic sludge.

wrt to the fords… i feel like i need to say at least one positive… as my f150 broke down while driving cross country military move (about 45k on the truck) and stranded me twice with my wife and 6 wk old son… at least parts were available at Auto Zone, Oriellys, and Napas along the way. That truck had the titan 5.4 - what a POS.

so Ford will make a big surge in sales and then the owners will dump them on the market after they start to break.

 

Ehhh…..Ford leads the American auto industry in recalls….what’s your time worth bringing your vehicle to the dealer for repairs all the time.

 

Every auto manufacturer has recalls.

It cracks me up with all the Ford hate. I’ve had Fords and Toyotas my whole life. Any machine, if maintained properly will last forever. We still have 3 Ford trucks on our family ranch that run like champs and they’re all 80’s models with the 5.0. I’ve driven multiple Ford, Chevy, Toyota and Dodge trucks over my 35 years of driving experience. They all have their ups and downs, mostly downs with Dodge, but again, it all comes down to proper maintenance and operating them inside the normal operating parameters. With that said, Toyota exceeds the standard in reliability for operating outside the manufacturers specs, but that’s a small percentage of us. I think we are going to see some issues with the 4th Gen Tacomas and 6th gen 4Runners because of the “bro it’s got turbos” fast n furious wanna be former ricer folks that are getting into the truck/suv game thinking they have to live life 1/4 mile at a time.

The problems with these modern vehicles isn’t the mechanical aspect of them, it’s the electronics and how those components are interfaced with the mechanical parts. I’ll use the helicopter analogy, more moving parts means more breakage. Unfortunately, these newer vehicles aren’t as easy to repair yourself as the older vehicles were and these new vehicles aren’t being built for folks who like to modify their rigs.

The new Ford “adventure” line of vehicles are being built very mod friendly which is why I think the OP is accurate. Hell, Ford Performance is even offering warrantied tunes if installed by the dealer! My son’s 2.7 Bronco Wildtrak has it, my daughter’s 2.3 Bronco Squatch has it, and my 23 F150 5.0 has it and they all rip. Toyota would never offer a dealer installed tune.

 

Ranger raptor is pretty awesome. And it's much more affordable then the f150 or bronco raptor.

 

Ha, Ha, Ha!!!!!! Toyota dependability and reputation/history vs "Fix or Repair Daily"??? The full-sized Ford Bronco we had was the second worse car we ever had. Behind the diesel Scout but better than the Jeep!

2021-2023 Ford F-150 Trucks Recalled Due to Axle Concerns - Consumer Reports

2022 Ford Ranger Recalls | Cars.com

2023 Ford Ranger Recalls | Cars.com

2024 FORD RANGER Technical Service Bulletins (TSBs) - Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans

Ford recalls Maverick pickup trucks over issue that can make tail lights go dark (scrippsnews.com)

Major 2024 Ford Ranger Delays Are Due to Frustrating Problems (msn.com)

"Nuff said!!!

Granted, the 1960 Ford Galaxie (my first car) was pretty good!

 

Absolutely not. There are numerous examples of flawed designs where no amount of preventative maintenance would help with sudden failure.

 

I think the turbo 4’s in tacomas and 4runners will be run under different circumstances than the typical fast and furious “vtec yo” scenarios.

Instead of high boost for short periods of time, a 4runner that’s modified with larger tires, or one that is running heavy, will probably cruise with a significant amount of boost all of the time. So that’s why I think the 4cyl is an “unknown”. Actually, I’m sure it will be fine in stock unmodified form, but I don’t think we can assume it will be the same with a heavy 4runner.

 

Please define flawed design? What is a flawed design in your opinion? Is it something that you have to maintain regularly?

All machines eventually break. Every single one. Anything with moving parts has failure points. Proper maintenance doesn’t just mean regular oil and fluid changes. Every machine ever built has life limited parts, be it seals, bearings, or something as simple as a cotter pin. Replacing these things as needed falls under the “maintenance” umbrella and will extend the life of that machine.

I’ll reference the Corvair. Many called it a flawed design but they’re still out there because people that understand what it is, took the time to find work arounds.

One of the planes I fly has a system that is considered a “flawed design” by those who don’t understand how to manage the system.

 

I forget what the problem exactly was, so don’t quote me, but the Ford Flex had the catalytic routed very close to a bearing (not sure if it was the main bearing, or a driveline bearing). The bearing seemed to get cooked pretty frequently, and it needed replacement pretty regularly. It cost an insane amount of money and time to fix each time.

I’d say something like that would qualify as a design flaw. Something that puts the machine out of service when run within it’s operating parameters.

 

That is definitely a design flaw IMO but it’s fixable, ie, manageable through proper maintenance. Is it financially feasible for the consumer base that is the market demographic for that vehicle? No way, but for someone that understands the “system” and has the means and desire to manage it properly, is it really that big of a deal?

What may be one man’s opinion of a design flaw may be another man’s opinion of a project.

 

I get your point lol. But there may be some legal definitions out there for “durable goods” or automobiles that come out of consumer protection laws. If a vehicle can’t be used in a manner commonly expected for autos, then it just becomes a situation where the vehicle isn’t fit for purpose.

That said, if a car makes it through the warranty without that problem occurring, it’s probably not worthy of being considered a design flaw.

 

Oh, I completely get what you’re saying. I’m just playing devils advocate for the “Toyotas are the greatest vehicles ever built” ignorance that tends to ensue in online forums.

 

2023 recalls…..notice Toyota doesn’t make it into the top ten.

1. Honda: 6,334,825 vehicles potentially affected
2. Ford: 6,152,614
3. Kia America: 3,110,447
4. Chrysler: 2,732,398
5. General Motors: 2,021,033
6. Nissan North America: 1,804,443
7. Mercedes-Benz USA: 478,173
8. Volkswagen Group of America: 453,763
9. BMW of North America: 340,249
10. Daimler Trucks North America: 261,959

 

Flawed design…..When Ford’s new 7.3 gas truck engine came out a few years ago I was interested in it as our wonderful government are EPA’ing the diesel out of existence. I’m always suspicious of new stuff so I sit on the sidelines and watch the game for awhile.
The Ford Godzilla 7.3 is plagued with camshaft/lifter failures.

 

Yep, I bought one, $8,150.00 OTD. Straight axel front & rear. Lifted it 3” and put on BFG KO 33”. Thing would climb Competition Hill at Glamis in 2nd gear low range with 10 lbs of tire pressure. Heck, I even backed up it, ha.

 

Is it a flawed design or a poor choice of engine for a tow pig?

I agree in that on the F250 platform, it doesn’t belong. I don’t think it is capable of the stress loads an F250 under normal intended use, ie towing and heavy hauling, that Ford thought it would perform well in is in the 7.3’s best use wheelhouse. In the ever growing popular market of ruined trucks with 36” deep dish wheels and rubber band mud terrains for the flat bill hat and white framed Oakley guys, it does just fine.

 

Failed hard facing on the lifter and cam, search “Godzilla lifter failure”.
Ford also has the wonderful design in some Eco Boost engines that have the RUBBER timing belt INSIDE the engine’s oil system(aka…”wet belt”). They delaminate/fall apart from heat/oil exposure, clog the oil passages and destroy the engine.

 

Yeah, I’m not a big fan of the eco boost engines. My F150 has the Coyote 5.0 and I have 2 other Mustangs with the 5.0, one for the track and one for around town, and I’ve been happy with those, but it’s an old design with modern stuff.

 

the pro is largely an appearance package.. $65k .. lol

 

I bought this cherry used every-single-option 85 for my oldest son……he rolled it…twice.
I would kill to have it today.