Tacoma TRD Pro Cost $65,395

I paid MSRP. I would never pay over that.

 

It's as simple as supply and demand! Just like the housing market! I also received $14,000 on a trade-in that I should have got $10,000 for. I am self employed so it also was a tax write off!

A very different car buying scenario today than three years ago when I purchased this 4R. Most of the 4R's were sold prior to arriving at the dealerships then. Nowadays there are 4R's sitting on dealership lots. Additionally the interest rates were much lower three years ago (2.39%).

 

My MSRP was $51,800, I paid $48,650

 

Unless you are doing serious off-roading it would be crazy to not look at the Palisade or Santa Fe. Lower prices, better warranty and better fuel economy. Slap a Toyota badge on them and people would line up for them.

 

I too-easily write up paragraphs about how the Hyundai/Kia track record is a strong sign of a lack of consumer-friendly thought in engineering and cost-cutting. The short of is is that so many cut corners that turn into headaches both large and small. Folks have been saying "they sucked before but they're fine now!" every year for 15+ years. I'll try to keep it brief.

Prices are lower upfront on the sticker, but not necessarily - the Telluride definitely had some unfortunate buyers go for the markup. It's not worth the long-term trouble risk to save just a couple/few grand unless you're not keeping it very long. But if you're planning to sell it, you'll get hit with lower resale. If you've owned one from the past decade, chances are you've seen some insurance increase too depending on trim/location/etc.

The best warranty is one you don't have to use. If you have to make use of the excellent on-paper warranty you have to deal with the wide spectrum of Hyundai and Kia dealers and then you'll get in line. You'll have to get an appointment however far out it is or call around to get an appointment because you're not the only one with a blown engine, warranty repairs can vary in length, complexity, you can find engine replacements that have taken as little as a few days up to waiting months with no guaranteed loaner. And they only reimburse $40/day for a rental. (At least for Kia)

If you buy used, that nice powertrain warranty evaporates and is replaced by an industry standard one.

The gap is closer these days but the duo tend to trail in fuel economy too.

Of course I know that each manufacturer has issues, Ford, HK, Tesla all had stupid recall "fixes" this year, it varies from engine, model, there are people with a 2009 Accent with 300k trouble-free miles, etc. but these things big and small are just so pervasive from the Hyundai Kia cousins that it's not worth it unless you're maybe buying the lower cost ones or can't get better financing.

(TL;DR - built to lower standard that still works out fine for many owners but bites more in turn.)

But at least you get solid, well-laid out and packaged interiors, slick styling and more features. Those didn't really comfort me as much though when I had to worry about my engine unexpectedly seizing in a rural area like the 2.4L likes to do or being vandalized/stolen in an urban one because they couldn't bother to spend the extra cents that even Mitsubishi and Nissan spent.

 

I am not giving my money to folks who are learning how to make cars. I am not funding experiments.

 

I know plenty of people that have had zero issues with their Hyundais. If Toyotas are so indestructible then why aren’t they giving a 100K warranty?

 

I have a Hyundai Tucson and it burns a whole quart of oil every 500 miles. The oil burning issue is real... tons of Hyundai/Kia owners affected by this.

 

Let’s wait for a 100k miles turbo Toyota engine. I’m sure it will burn oil as well. BTW 1 quarts/500 miles is definitely not normal. Are you still under warranty? If not I would call Carvana/Carmax like yesterday.

 

That is an often quoted rule, but the older I get the less comfortable I am spending even that much. Another variation on it is never spend more than 30-40% of your annual gross salary on a car and never finance more than 4 years.


When I was 22 I spent something like 40% of my salary on my first brand new car. But I put 30% down, financed it for under 3% and paid it off in a couple years. At that age all I had was rent for a share apartment and a small student loan.

Now as my kids approach high school I am in mega save for retirement phase and starting to think about college financing. I put down about 40% the purchase price on my Pro by trading my Tacoma, the resulting loan payment + ins and gas is about 4% of our monthly gross and even that felt a bit higher than I like.


I think the key to a comfortable life is to keep your rate of lifestyle inflation below the rate of increase in your earnings as you age - so over time the % you spend on vehicles will go down.

 

This describes me exactly. I bought the Pro because its more than enough for what I do with it (driving to campsites, maybe doing some green/blue level guided trail rides in NH/ME after the offroad class I took) + it has a lot of daily driver creature comforts I like such as the dual auto climate. I stumbled into one at MSRP and I know that I can basically sell it for what I paid for it if the need arises.

If I wanted to rock crawl Id buy a Wrangler. If a dealer talks market adjustment I walk.

 

It's got the extended warranty as a result from the class action lawsuit. So if my engine blows before 150k miles I will most likely get a new/refurbished engine. It has about 125k miles so far. But my lady loves it as a daily driver so idk if we'll sell it.

This is one of the reasons why I don't trust thin oil. My Tucson is recommended to use 5-20 and it burnes quicker than 5-40 when I've used it and performance isn't really affected.

That's why Toyota recommending 0-20 for our 1GR-FE scares me. I know CAFE rules, but after warranty is over I'll start using 0-30 or 0-40.

 

The older single VVTI 1GR in the 2nd gen Tacoma and previous runner used 5w-30. Our dual VVTI 1GR metnions heavier oil in the manual in other markets. Lots of guys use 5w-30 in this engine with zero issues (I had a lot leftover and tried it, cant tell any difference and may stick with it). I think its all CAFE rules driving the change and I wouldn't be afraid to use it in warranty... odds of a major failure are so small and even if it happened they would have to send the oil off for analysis to prove you used something than the 0w-20 spec.

 

Badging doesn't mean anything. If a brand isn't bringing real significant changes between models. Where it counts is the drive train(Engine Transmission) and capabilities of the machine. You can shine up a turd (TRD) but it's still a turd (TRD) . IMO anyone willing to pay above $60k on a mid size truck is an idiot. Go buy yourself a GMC or Ford, then you will be happier being able to haul and pull more. I don't want to hear wah wah Toyota reliability etc. . . Anyone who actually gives a real shiz about that either don't buy new or really plan on keeping their car longer than say 5-7 years. Thats not me. I buy new always. I keep my cars a short while like them and leave them for something new and exciting. Hands down if I was paying above $55-60k its going to be like one of the below. If Toyota isn't careful they will price themselves out of the market and folks will jump on the Ranger Raptor band wagon or jump brands entirely for some of the new prospects up and coming.

 

A quart every 500 miles??? I sense some exaggeration there.

 

Nope, read up on Hyudnai theta II engines you'll see these engines have been so bad with it that it resulted in a massive class action lawsuit.

 

regarding the “extraordinarily high resale values” on the pros vs non pros. Again, it’s a bit of a myth. All 4Runners have high resale values. Here’s a reality check:

2022 ORP 19k miles $44k - https://www.carmax.com/car/25673943

2022 Pro 24k miles $49k -
https://www.carmax.com/car/25246890

Yes, it’s higher, but… in both cases, you’re getting back almost equal thousands less than you paid for.

 

I’m not spending $60K on a Tacoma or 4Runner. That’s idiotic. I currently own one of each but I have no loyalty to a brand that’s trying to screw over its customers. I’ll look elsewhere if these crazy prices remain when looking to buy the next ride.

 

NEVER FEAR !! I am here to rescue you all. . .

 

It's not that people can't have good experiences with their Hyundai/Kia, I technically did up to 130k miles*. It's that they're built to a lower standard for not that much less money. Toyota spends less money on features and the interior and clearly saved reusing things between the new 4Runner, LC, GX. How long are those people keeping the car? Go to r/Kia and you'll see people saying that their Kia is great, no problems in 25,000 miles! (and if they're older than 2010ish, those are built better)

Hyundai and Kia save on the powertrain and random places around the car that should be fundamental like no immobilizer in key-start vehicles from 2011ish until late 2021. And it takes big problems and lawsuits for them to get off their butts and remedy customers and "fix" the problems they decided to create.

And even then the fixes have hurdles like requiring a software patch (KSDS) that doesn't prevent engine failure, just something requiring owners to get before they get the lawsuit warranty and if you don't know about it as a subsequent owner, too bad!

The early-10's Elantra piston-slap lawsuit warranty was for so called "cold states" only.

And if you're covered by the warranty, you're still in trouble since the rental allowance isn't enough, loaner isn't guaranteed, you'll have to fight for reimbursement for the tow...

It's all about money. Toyota decided not to chase Hyundai, Kia and Mitsubishi down that warranty path which I am willing to work that since so far, they have an overall solid track record of building engines and the rest of the car. (no wet belts, no sudden seizing, etc)

There's also the argument to be made as for why don't Hyundai and Kia let the 100k warranty follow the vehicle to subsequent owners? (Because many are sold before the 10 year, 100k mile mark so that cuts down on eligible cars, and if it burns all the oil away because not everyone checks their oil like us nerds do that's "owner neglect, goodbye!")

*OK except for worrying about the crap engine, having a window busted because no immobilizer, the washer fluid tank breaking and AWD needing replacement.

It's really not that uncommon for their entire decade of their direct injection 4-cylinders. It's not as bad as it once was and the replacement engines haven't been blowing up as much but funny how it took a decade of band-aids until they ran out the clock on the design.

They issued new dipsticks to increase oil capacity too but even then the dealer my parent's got free oil changes from consistently overfilled it. (3,000 mile intervals too, the 8-10k interval we can get away with here is just asking for trouble in H/K land)

You can compare CarComplaints too. 2011 Camry, Accord, Legacy, Malibu vs. the Sonata and Optima. 2016 CR-V, RAV4 and Sorento. Also take sales into account, the RAV4 and Camry are typically top sellers in their segments.

My parents have that year Sonata and it hasn't blown up yet at around 90k miles so that's good, people get lucky! But it doesn't mean it's a good car to buy.

 

Two points:
-I don’t care what a vehicle’s reliability or reputation was 10 years ago. I’m buying a new vehicle.
-Toyota has plenty of problems too. They have a lot of active recalls right now. Then there’s the whole Tundra seized engine fiasco. Rusty frames are pretty big deal too.

 

- If years of past and very recent subpar engineering and decision-making won’t turn you away from something new and shiny, I can’t stop you. You might get something just fine like my parents, (ok except for stalling once and getting a high pressure fuel pump replaced) but if not, whether it be engineering, dealer experience or poor resale, you signed up for it.

- I don’t know if you were around but this was on a scale that makes the Tundra and Honda 3.5L issues seem like a complete nothing burger.

- It’s not even about recalls themselves, everyone has recalls. It’s the nature of the recalls combined with its handling by the company which rivals Ford.

Edit: This also pains me because they CAN build reasonably solid cars.

 

I guess you probably aren’t too interested in Kia’s new pickup truck.

 

As much as I like "mid size" trucks, I think the ranger raptor is a bit overrated. From The pictures you can tell the suspension travel just isn't what the f150 raptor is. Plus the 3.0t engine is problematic.

Still it's a cool small truck

 

It is not simple supply and demand. That is the psy ops. There were always deals below MSRP even at the height of the pandemic BS. You had to try hard to get that deal but they were out there.

 

And GX550 Overtrail that can tow 9000 lbs costs $69,000.

 

Man, would you believe me if I said I was looking at the Kia Borrego last year before buying a 4Runner? (Sadly too rare but it did tick my boxes and seemed to have dodged their turn-of-the-decade issues.)

Maybe in several years without serious snafus my opinion will change, I’m very curious about seeing the Tasman but a pickup just isn’t for me currently.

I’m wondering if it did show up in the US, whether they could get away pricing it between where the Tacoma is going to be and Frontier, or whether it’d have to be below the Frontier. I bet it has to be based on the Borrego/Mohave’s frame.

Everyone does have a price though, and despite all my bellyaching about H/K I certainly do too.

 

Hyundai and Kia still haven’t figured out electrical. Almost every one I see going down the road has a burnout brake light or tail light. Start paying attention. Damnedest thing I’ve ever seen.

 

Toyota doesn’t have to. If a Kia or Hyundai owner somehow makes it past 100k miles without a rebuilt engine, then what? Sell, trade, cross your fingers? The Toyota will keep rolling with routine maintenance.

 

There’s plenty of Hyundais out there that have made it to high mileage without any problems at all. Who knows what these new Toyota turbo hybrids will be like when they hit 150K?