Which Model?

Hello, all. New member here, my 1st post.

I will be retiring in July and am going to get myself a nice hunting/camping rig. It has got to be a mudder. Looking for a used 4R. 2016-2020. I won't be buying until August at the earliest.

I am on info overload as to which model to get. Should I get an SR5 and put on a lift kit, or get a TRD off-road with the KDSS, or go all out and get a TRD Pro?

My research, so far as I can tell, is the KDSS is not available on the Pro or the SR5. (Am I misunderstanding the info?)

The Pro is probably out my budget, but I would like others opinions of that model.

I want to avoid the nose dive/body roll that I have read about using spacers. I may be old, but I still have a lead foot and I like "hanging it out" on the curves.

Of course, bigger tires are a must. I will probably be mounting 275's ( though 285's are not out of the question ) for the better gas mileage, and I won't be doing any rock crawling. Any and all advice is much appreciated.

If you have another model to recommend, please do so and the reason for it.

Budget is $40k total. I would like to do a front and rear bumper for that coin, but they are not " must haves".

 

It really sounds like an SR5 would be fine for you. Hop on Toyota’s website and compare the difference between them. The only real upside of an off road model is KDSS and a rear locker. The pro is more of an appearance package besides having better suspension from factory.

 

Ok a quick rundown of a kinda muddy picture.

2010-2020 is still mechanically the electrically the same vehicle, it got a bumper and lights face lift in 2014. Radios, instrument clusters, dash backlighting color, etc have been tweaked and updated over the years. Personally I think the pre-facelift looks better. The 2013+ looks like they stuck a 10–12 front end in a pencil sharpener to round it off a bit and then just called it good. It’s like a rounded crossover style front end end thrown on a box of a vehicle and it just looks weird to me.

The SR5 is basically the poverty spec. SR5 Premium is an SR5 with a few added creature comforts.

The “Trail” gets the fake hood scoop, electric rear locker, level operated transfer case, electrical off road driving aids (crawl control, terrain select, etc), and optional KDSS which is basically hydraulic sway bar mounting point that are firm on road and let the sway bar move freely off road at low speeds cancelling its effect. The Trail was later renamed TRD Off Road (or TRD Off Road Premium with some extra comfort items) because Toyota can charge more if it has TRD in the name.

But now there’s a new “Trail” that’s an SR5 with some silly shit added that’s painted in colors people used to pay a bunch of extra money for because they were 1 year exclusive to the TRD Pro.

The TRD Pro is TRD Off Road with a very expensive appearance package and a mild shock upgrade (originally Bilstein, now Fox) but the newest ones finally got premium audio, dual zone climate control, CarPlay, push button start, etc so they aren’t totally a bullshit money grab anymore like the early Bilstein equipped ones. Each year the TRD Pro is available in a color that is exclusive to that model for that one year... until it’s not.

The Limited is luxury model, all the creature comforts you can get in a 4Runner, they also have the lowest hanging bumpers, the biggest wheels, it’s the only model with full time 4WD (unless it’s 2WD), and it has the xreas suspension where the dampeners in opposite corners are hydraulic linked to one an other. It’s a purely mechanical system that works great but its not serviceable and is astronomically expensive to replace so people generally swap it with standard suspension when the time comes.

Toyota also offers regional dealer rice type of packages as well, the south east for example gets the “XP”. The Venture is basically a nation wide version of that. Starting with 2020 model year Toyota Safety Sense driver assist package showed up in the 4Runner for the first time and was standard across the board.

Best looking: 10-13 Trail
Best overall platform to build an off roader: 10-14 Trail / 15+ TRD Offroad
Best suited to on road use: Limited
Most sought after: TRD Pro

Reception from random assholes on the internet concerned with what you bought: SR5 you get made for of for buying a poverty spec pos, Limited you get made fun of for buying mall crawler that can’t drive up a curb with those 20’s and the low bumpers not to mention the ghetto fabulous grill, TRD you get made fun of for wasting so money on an port installed appearance package with nothing of substance really added. Old Trail/new TRD Offroad is safe.

All in all It’s a very old outdated platform that is slow and inefficient, but simple and dead nuts reliable. They have very few actual problems. Fantastic vehicles, 10 model years old and their sales continue to climb (minus COVID crashing the economy).

 

What @Agent_Outside said.
I have an 18 Off Road Premium with KDSS. And I’m glad to have it. Test drive a 4R with KDSS and without. See what you prefer. You may not even need to do any major mods to it, they’re all extremely capable as stock. And it’s a real help to have a rear locker when you need it (Trail, OR, ORP, Pro). Whatever you choose you will enjoy it.

 

Thank you very much for that in depth reply! That is info I can somewhat make sense of.

-- I really like the "get made fun of " part. --

They want to make fun of me, let 'em. IDC. My ego checked out long ago.

The real question is, which is the better value:

1) Get an SR5 and buy and install a suspension and wheels/tires at $5,000ish

2) Buy a TDR Off-Road, and have to buy..........anything? From what I have read, the TRD wheels are very nice. Strength and performance.

 

welcome to the forum!

The TRD off-road and SR5 have the same suspension. So if you would want to upgrade the SR5 suspension, you would also want to upgrade the off-road suspension.

You are correct that the off-road wheels are actually very good for off-roading. Some say they're better than the PRO wheels.

The factory tires are not really great off-road, so you'll want something more aggressive if you want to play in the mud.

Otherwise, there's not really anything you need for some off-roading. However, most of us seem to keep finding ways to rationalize more and more modifications. It's a slippery slope! But, there's worse things you could blow your money on.

Also, maybe plan on a bit of basic recovery gear if your going to be hitting some trails. Especially if you like mud!

 

Spacers would lessen nose dive or body roll by stiffening the suspension (preload).

 

I believe most spacers usually sit on top of the whole strut assembly, so they wouldn't affect ride quality.

 

I believe the TRD is the only one with a true transfer case.

 

And the rest split power via Bluetooth right?

 

They all have real transfer cases. The off-road and PRO are just manual shift.

Lol!

 

Actually the ones with the electrical selector are not a true 4x4 system. More of and AWD system.

 

What is part-time 4WD in the Toyota 4Runner?
The SR5 and SR5 Premium are both available with part-time 4WD. The TRD Off-Road, TRD Off-Road Premium, and TRD Pro all come with part-time 4WD as a standard feature. But what is part-time 4WD on the Toyota 4Runner?

Basically, the part-time 4WD drive system is what you are probably used to from four-wheel-drive systems. It gives you three settings with a 2-high mode that gives you rear-wheel drive with regular gearing. The 4-high mode is also available which is normal four-wheel drive. There is a third mode called 4-low which is four-wheel drive with low gearing for maximum traction and torque application.

2019 Toyota 4Runner engine specs

What is full-time 4WD in the Toyota 4Runner?
The Limited and the Limited Nightshade Edition don’t come with part-time 4WD. Instead, they get standard full-time 4WD. They are the only two trims that come with this feature, and we can explain how it works.

Full-time 4WD is exactly how it sounds. No matter which mode you select, power will be going to all four wheels. You have three models again with high-4-free, high-4-lock, and low-4-lock. It’s the same scenario as with part-time 4WD with high and low, but the lock and free refers to the locking rear differential, which only comes with full-time 4WD.

 

lol

 

This is incorrect. They ALL have dual range transfer cases. They ALL can be locked in 4WD. The center differential in the Limited can be locked, making it a true 4WD system as well.

 

Holy shit, this is so inaccurate

 

Wow lol

 

Transfer cases are not the same:

This is the electronic transfer type.

The 5th Gen Limited does indeed have a full-time 4WD, often called AWD system because the torque split is variable. The standard split is 40/60 front/rear I believe and can be commanded up to 60/40. Its a mechanical 4WD using a Torsen 3rd generation center diff which is why the torque split is what it is (Torsen actually lists the T-3 as a 35/65 or 65/35 split). Other AWD systems can decouple the second pair of drive wheels and favor a more traditional FWD or RWD until traction loss is detected; not so with the 4runner.

The full time 4WD is indeed great for slick roads because the system always tries to maintain traction, albeit with interference from the brakes and engine throttling. A traditional 4x4 system, or with a fully locked center diff, actually must LOSE traction on one or more wheels to dissipate driveline differences. This is great offroad or in a straight line but a little less than desirable when negotiating slick corners. So to summarize, 4HI unlocked is a variable biased torque system using a (lockable) Torsen center diff to send the majority of power (not all) either front or rear. Its great onroad and in slick conditions, especially with the electronic aids deactivated. 4HI locked should be used for mud, when stuck, or offroad as speeds are generally slower and traction losses are not likely to result in a skid.

 

Thanks for the cut and paste. How is this relevant to the inaccurate BS you posted earlier?

 

Dude. Just letting OP know there are 2 types of transfer cases that operate differently. Why be a dick.

 

The internet is fun.

 

I'm just pointing out that things you posted are inaccurate.

Like this:

And this:

Not trying to be a dick. I just don't want the OP to be misinformed.

Full time 4WD is not the same as AWD. And, as I pointed out earlier, the center diff on the full time 4WD models can be locked, making it a true 4WD system.

 

Good post. Seems to me your actual main choice is between the SR5 and the Limited.

Given the way you'll use your 4Runner, there's not a lot of advantage in getting a TRD over the SR5. The manual transfer case isn't a big plus, the suspension is the same and you may want to upgrade it anyway, the TRD wheels are prob better but the SR5 wheels are more than good enough, you'll want to replace the tires on both, and the locking rear dif on the TRD is a nice-to-have but you're unlikely to need it.

You mention wanting to avoid nose dive and body roll. The XREAS system that comes standard on the Limited is excellent at that (see Agent Outside's post about that above). The KDSS that you can get only on a TRD will help with body roll, but not to the same degree and not at all for nose dive.

If you plan to upgrade your suspension no matter what, for example because you believe you need a lift, then you'll save a lot of money by getting the SR5. In that upgrade you can make choices that will reduce body roll and dive.

If you want creature comforts like power seat memory, dual zone, leather, heated and ventilated seats etc, then you'll want the Limited. If you go that route you'd prob want to swap the wheels and tires for TRD or OR wheels with mud ready rubber. But, again, you're gonna want to buy mud ready rubber no matter which trim you choose.

Another consideration not mentioned in the many excellent posts above (eg Agent Outside, Thatbassguy) is headlights. The lights on all models before 2021 suck. Like, bad. In 2021 all models switched to very good LEDs for the low beams, with higher trims getting LEDs for the high beams as well.

Boil all this down and, if it was me, I'd seriously consider a 2021 SR5 and then upgrade as you go, based on your actual needs as they arise. That's the smartest path IMO. You note you have a 40K budget. You can get a brand new SR5 under that, with full warranty and no worries about hidden problems, plus the LEDs, plus better resale from being a newer model year (all else being equal).

 

The info that I have seen, from guys that went the spacer route, indicated that the spacers were the cause of increased nose dive and body roll. Some eventually did a suspension upgrade, and a few that didn't, wanted to, but they could not justify the cost.

In my mind, the spacer route is a no go.

Right now, I feel that getting a TRD Off-road with the KDSS is the best way to go. Prices on Car Guru's of SR5's are similar to the TRD Off-road w/KDSS. (Which is not available on the SR5). I won't need to up-grade the suspension, or buy aftermarket wheels.

Though after reading the previous post I am back to the SR5/TRD OR decision.

The Limited editions have zero appeal to me. They seem like too much of a luxury vehicle. I need a truck.

 

Just FYI, KDSS won’t help with the nose dive on the 4runner. The active sway bar is for body roll.

 

Thank you for that info. Body roll is the bigger issue for me. I can tolerate nose dive. (Probably comes from my jacked-up muscle car days.)

 

Not arguing with you- I trust you’re correct. But then why do I have that impression? I’m sure I picked it up on the forum(s). Is there another type of spacer that sits inside the spring (instead of on top)?

 

If the Limited is a turn off for you, definitely don't consider it. Besides, you can't get a new one for 40K but can get a new SR5 for that amount.

Just don't bail on the Limited because you "need a truck." The Limited is as much of a truck as the other trims. Saying it's not a real truck is like saying a F150 King Ranch isn't a real truck cause it has all the extra comfort features and glitz. The BOF platform is the same, the engine and tranny are the same, etc etc etc. And it's 4WD system is arguably better depending on how you'll use the thing, especially if it's going to get a lot of road use in slippery conditions. With the other models, you can't be in 4WD unless you're in the slop. Road conditions that switch between slippery and not is a hassle with the systems on the SR5 and TRD.

All that said, as indicated in my earlier post, the SR5 is a great choice. It's def the most "bang for the buck," and can be a nice clean slate for upgrades if you need them.

 

For the OP’s criteria I would go with a used SR5 Premium, if your budget allows or if the SR5P used prices are close to the TRD OffRoad Premiums then I’d upgrade to one of those. Just look for a clean title, well maintained and you can’t go wrong with either of them. Then mod then to your taste and comfort.