Toyota brand fluids and parts deep dive

it's getting kind of expensive to maintain my stable of Toyotas with Toyota brand parts.

Which fluids and parts do I need to buy expensive Toyota brand versus other compatible quality non-toyota brand for 4runner?

Mainly common wear stuff like engine oil transmission fluid differential fluid transfer case fluid shocks brake pieces and parts and such.

 

Fluids can easily be replaced with any off the shelf brand equivalents. Toyota does not make their own fluids anyway.

I'd keep using their parts though as they are mainly Denso which is owned by Toyota. However you can use other known brands such as AC Delco.

 

I use Itemitsu WS ATF, the cheapest full syn 0w20 I can find when needed, Wix filters, Zerex pink coolant, and Redline drivetrain fluids. Use whatever meets the spec/grade. Stick with Denso parts as you can.

 

Has anyone ran compatible Castrol or Valvoline engine oil and transmission fluid for a lot of miles without issues? I'm trying to get a sense of where non-toyota manufacturer compatibility recommendations get too far from the OEM Toyota spec and start to cause issues in the long run. I know it's easy just to say throw Toyota stuff at it but I'd like to get more insight into this but I don't like throwing money at it unnecessarily because lack of knowledge.

 

I used Valvoline's Maxlife ATF in a 2001 Echo, and zero issues were encountered. Would I use it in my 4Runner? No, but that's me.

 

I’m running Valvoline MaxLife ATF in both my 4th gen and 5th gen without any issues.

 

Don't pay for the brand name fluids, just a waste of money.

 

How many miles have you been running that Valvoline?

 

I am on the other side of the argument, unless you are some OCD guy who hates spending time with his wife and family and feels the need to replace the transmission fluid every 5000 miles, you’re probably going to do transmission changes maybe once or twice during the entire life of this vehicle and therefore cheap fluid is not worth it to save a few bucks over the Toyota brand.

On the other hand, I don’t believe in name brand transfer case or differential oil, that shit doesn’t matter.

 

I usually stay on the more aggressive side of Toyota's maintenance schedules because I do some light off-roading in the swamp and I'm pulling a 4,000 lb center console all over the state of Florida on the weekends.

 

Only about 2500 on my 18 but I can’t tell any difference. Probably got 10k on the 07 and it’s butter smooth too.

 

I've been watching them car Care nut videos on YouTube and he says you can use whatever brand you want for the engine but you can't do that for the transmission. I don't get it. Seems like it would be the other way around since the engines more expensive

 

With the engine, you're replacing all the oil during an oil change. It's ok to put in whatever meets the specs.

With the transmission, most people are doing a partial oil change........unless you go nuts and do the whole thing. Car care nut said a partial oil change is sufficient every 60k. I think this is why he recommends sticking with the same oil. Maybe you can potentially run into problems by mixing oils from different brands in the trans. I'm not sure. I'll be sticking with Toyota WS. It's not very expensive.

 

That definitely makes sense because the Toyota WS is not synthetic and just about all the Toyota WS approved non-toyota brands are full synthetic...

I don't think you're supposed to mix synthetic and nonsynthetic oil but maybe it's different for transmission fluid. I don't know

 

I just did a partial change at 60,000 miles. The old fluid I drained was just as clean looking as new fluid. The Car Care Nut’s technique is to replenish some of the chemistry of some the fluid on a regular basis. There’s nothing wrong with non-synthetic Toyota WS, and I figure it’s best to keep the same chemical mix in there.

 

Mobil 0-20
Mobil for diffs
Purple royal for transfer

 

With the exception of transmission fluid, here is what I use on my 4Runner, Tacoma and Lexus GX460.
Oil (Tacoma only 5W), diffs, and transfer case.

 

I’ve got what I need to do the gear boxes now. Looking forward to trying the squeeze bag. I heard it’s easier.

 

This is the only way if you have multiple vehicles.

 

Agree. I did the diffs & transfer case myself, I think I used a combination of Mobil 1 and Supertech syn, whatever I could find on the the shelf at the time.

As far as the transmission, I didn't feel like dealing with that so I just dropped it off at the Toyota dealer. It was worth it for me, they did a drain and fill on it and the price really wasn't terrible. That's literally the only fluid service I would pay for at a dealer.

 

Those look handy. When I did mine, I bought a fluid transfer pump from a discount store near me for like 7 bucks, and I transferred the fluid into a clean 1 gallon bottle, and pumped the fluid out of that. Made it much easier than trying to deal with bottles.

 

I have one of those. Makes filling the diffs, trans and transfer case so easy.

 

As far as parts I will always buy OEM. I worked for the only US based semiconductor manufacture to supply to Toyota. I got to see first hand the extremely high quality levels they demand. For example, all of our chips we’re tested before use by Toyota. We were only allowed to have 4 chips for every billion tested fail on the testers, no failures in the field to keep our contract with them. Toyota quality programs exceed nasa, the military, and the medical fields easily. So for the vehicle I depend on, it’s always a Toyota.

 

Here's what some fella at Tacoma world was saying:

WS is garbage , dont use it after warranty runs out .....better yet , get it out now before your warranty runs out ! Toyota Cant deny warranty of transmission fluid as long as it is WS compatible .
Give me a minute ! I am still working on this post with credible sources so dont call me out until I am finished Why would a guy with 30 years experience ....17 years of which owning my own shop working on transmissions every day say this ?
EDIT : still waiting for copywrite information to get released to me . I asked if i could use the information at Tacoma World ....now i am waiting for a reply ( Sept 15/2014). Sent another email Sept 13 . I will bump the post with new information as soon as I get permission .If you dont like waiting , think of how I feel being the OP .
Why should I waste my time and your time by reading this throwing a bunch of information together ? because like you , I am here to help others understand how manufacturers operate and how they try to skim past rules and regulations by trying to fool consumers into beleiving that you need a speacial fluid in your transmission to save fuel .WS fluid is nothing but a ploy used by Toyota to get away from paying taxes on environmental fees and that is all it is period .Can any of you tell us what transmission fluid is considered to be a lifetime fluid ? There is no such thing in this day and age .Toyota is like all the rest; they make recommendations that are good from a PR standpoint but not so good from the mechanical perspective. Transmission fluid changes, or lack of, is only one of those PR moves.Unfortunately, a lot of mechanics even at the dealership level buy into ill-advised things like this.
If the car manufacturers feel so confident in fluid longevity then let them warranty the transmissions for the life of the vehicle......... This post , when finished is going to prove to you that there are better suited fluids even at Walmart that superceed the characteristics of WS transmission fluid

Get that god awful fluid out of your transmission as soon as you can. The issue with WS is the proven fact that it cant handle the heat and breaks down to acid in a short period of time .

For you guys that have questions regarding warranty coverage ...read this . Its going to explain to you that Toyota Cant deny a warranty claim becuase you changed your transmission fluid to an aftermarket blend .
http://www.zabteck.com/MagnusonMossWarrantyAct.pdf

If you plan to change your transmission fluid and dont plan to use World standard fluid , try to find an aftermarket fluid thats WS endorsed

Question :
(1)Why did Toyota change their transmission fluid to World Standard ( WS ) in 2005 ?

Answer : Selling 168,000 2nd generation tacomas in 2005 , Toyota needed to find a way to avoid hefty environmental fees .Toyota pays an environmental fee for each vehichle they sell to us . This was acheived by introducing WS fluid to the market as a lifetime fluid capable of 100k without as much as a service saving Toyota millions .Toyota wanted you as a customer to beleive that WS was created to save fuel which is simply not true .

(2)Was there anything wrong with the fluid they recommended for their transmissions from 1972 - 2002 ?

Yes , Toyota had to pay environmental fees because the fluid used needed servicing much sooner

(3)Did they do it for reliability ?
WS fluid cant handle any heat . This is extremelly well proven and will back up everything mentioned in this post .There are some proven accounts listed here http://www.artsautomotive.com/about/78-genuine-fluids

(4) Did they do it to save their customers money by changing the transmission service interval to 100,000 miles ?

Answer ...No, We know that synthetic tends to flow better when its cold, that it resists shearing better than conventional, that it protects better under high heat conditions, and that in general it usually has a lower NOACK and a higher film strength. WS transmission fluid is not synthetic like Toyota has claimed .

(5)Did they spend countless hours engineering a new transmission fluid that would last forever and was far superior to any other fluid on the market and did the engineers look at what happens when the fluid breaks down ?

Answer . No - Toyota introduced WS fluid to save money on environmental tax fees by telling the government that WS fluid would last 100,000 miles without a service . If you look at the bottom of this post , the contents of WS fluid has been broken down into particulates . Notice anything unusual ? what are the professional oil analysts saying about WS when exposed to heat and why did Toyota suddenly and recently change the transmission service interval from 100k down to 60K? NOTE : check the fees when purchasing your truck

(6)Why does Aisn Warner who make the transmission say that the transmission fluid needs to be changed every 30 k and 25 k under severe use yet Toyota says the fluid is good for 100k ?

(7)What parts within the transmission changed making the new WS fluid necessary ?

The A750 series which was released in 2003 reqiured WS fluid yet the clutching , electronics and converter clutch were similar to the A340 from the early 1990,s . Much the same as the Toyota camry using the identical transmission and clutching yet now requires WS fluid

(8)What is so special about this fancy WS transmission fluid that Toyota recommends for The Aisn Warner A750 series transmission ?

Lets have a peek at the content of WS fluid
The WS fluid is nothing special and not synthetic like Toyata claims . Taking a look at the MSDS for WS fluid designed by Exxon , pay close attention to the flashpoint and you are going to see that WS collapses massively under heat
http://www.kd5byb.net/Tundra/ATF WS MSDS1.pdf

Now take a look at WS fluid designed by Esso and notice the flashpoint is much lower than the Exxon WS but still collapses massively under heat
http://www.kd5byb.net/Tundra/ATF WS MSDS2.pdf

Now take a look at the German blend of WS known as Ravenol . In the link provided , you are going to see that WS is used in many different vehicles in Europe . What we can conclude from this is that WS is not specific to Toyota . Still waiting for an msds from Ravenol to compare against the North American blends . I highly expect a totally different fluid similar to Max Life
http://www.ravenol.de/produkte/verwendung/d/Product/show/p/ravenol-atf-t-ws-lifetime.html

KV 100C just below 6cSt
BV -40C about 8500cP
20 hour KRL shear 10% vis loss
FZG a/8.3/90 9 LS
Foam
Seq I 30/0
Seq II 40/0
Seq III 20/0
Seq IV 30/0
The VM collapses massively under thermal stress.


Lets have a look at valvoline Maxlife that can be purchased from your local Wallmart .
Here is the PDF . Pay close attention to the viscosity and flaspoint . Max life does not collapse massively when its exposed to the same heat stress as WS . There is very little viscosity breakdown .
http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/maxlife_atf.pdf
THOMAS R. SMITH
Vice President, Branded Lubricant Technology
Ashland Consumer Markets
August 22, 2011
To Whom It May Concern:
MaxLife ATF is a full synthetic automatic transmission fluid designed to meet the needs of the broadest range of transmission designs. MaxLife ATF recommendations are based on a combination of field testing and laboratory testing.
Valvoline recommends MaxLife ATF in a broad range of transmissions. The list below is just a sample of applications where Valvoline supports the use of MaxLife ATF. Valvoline has conducted in-house testing, independent lab testing, and field-testing to support MaxLife ATF performance in these transmissions; however, it is important to note that the respective vehicle manufacturers have neither evaluated nor approved MaxLife ATF in these applications.
• Allison TES 389, C-4
• ATF 3403 M115
• Audi/VW G-052-025-A1/A2, G-055-025, G-052-162-A1/A2, G-055-005-A1/A2, G-055-162, G-060-162-A1/A2
• BMW LT71141, LA2634, M-1375.4 fluids
• Ford MERCON
• Ford FNR5
• Ford MERCON® V
• Ford MERCON® SP
• MERCON® LV
• GM 9986195
• GM DEXRON® II, III and VI
• Honda/Acura ATF-Z, DW-1 (except in CVTs)
• Hyundai SP-II, SP-III, SP-IV, and SPH-IV
• Jaguar JLM20238, LT71141
• JWS 3309
• KIA SP-II and SP-III Fluids
• KIA Red 1
• MAN 339 Type F
• Mazda M-V
• Mercedes Benz MB236.1, MB236.6, MB236.7, MB236.9, MB236.10
• Mercedes Benz NAG-1
• MOPAR AS68RC ATF
• Miscellaneous OEMs – M1375.4
• Mitsubishi Diamond SP-II and SP-III
• Nissan Matic-D, Matic-J, Matic-K, and Matic-S
• Saab 93 165 147
• Subaru ATF
• Subaru ATF-HP
• Toyota / Lexus Type T, T-III and T-IV
• Toyota WS (except Hybrid vehicles)
• Voith H55.6336.33 (G1363), H55.6335.33 (G607)
• Volvo 1161521 and 1161540, and STD 1273.41
• VW TL52162
• ZF TE-ML-14B, 16L, 17C
Valvoline stands behind all of its products, including MaxLife ATF. Use of MaxLife ATF in transmissions where recommended by Valvoline WILL NOT void the vehicle’s warranty. Vehicle manufacturers are restricted by federal law from including the requirement of the use of a specific brand or trade name of product or service as a condition of their warranty. The following is an extract from the Federal Trade Commission’s web site on interpretation of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act:
"Tie-In Sales" Provisions Generally, tie-in sales provisions are not allowed. Such a provision would require a purchaser of the warranted product to buy an item or service from a particular company to use with the warranted product in order to be eligible to receive a remedy under the warranty. The following are examples of prohibited tie-in sales provisions.
In order to keep your new Plenum Brand Vacuum Cleaner warranty in effect, you must use genuine Plenum Brand Filter Bags. Failure to have
scheduled maintenance performed, at your expense, by the Great American Maintenance Company, Inc., voids this warranty.
Valvoline has conducted extensive testing and has a long history of successful use of MaxLife ATF in a broad range of applications. In the unlikely event that you or your customer experiences any transmission damage while using MaxLife ATF in a Valvoline recommended application, please contact Valvoline at 1-800-Team-VAL for assistance.
While MaxLife ATF is designed to meet the special needs of higher mileage transmissions, new transmissions can also benefit from its enhanced oxidation protection, shear stability, seal compatibility, wear protection and anti-shudder protection. Many consumers have chosen to take advantage of this level of performance in newer transmissions.
Valvoline does not recommend MaxLife ATF for use in most continuously variable transmissions (CVTs) unless specifically noted nor in automatic transmissions where Ford Type F fluids are recommended.
Sincerely,
Thom Smith
Vice President, Branded Lubricant Technology
Ashland Consumer Markets

 

Nice write-up!

 

First thing I did when purchasing a 2014 with 120K miles is flush the transmission fluid and replace with Valvoline Maxlife. Only maintenance not performed by PO. Several YouTube videos were very helpful. Original fluid was dark and dirty looking. Flushed and replaced with 12 quarts of new fluid, 2 quarts at a time. Procedure used: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKmMrPAr3iM

 

I did a full flush in my tacoma and replaced fluid with max life. 210k so far all is good

 

Does anyone have a good amount of miles on this stuff?

 

I've been thinking about this a little more and have changed my mind on a couple of things.

I'm no expert, but I kind of doubt the claims that WS is a terrible fluid. If it was, you'd hear of a lot more Toyota transmissions going out. Is it possible that it breaks down quicker with heat than other competitors? Sure, that's possible but it still doesn't mean it's junk.

I also kind of doubt that blending fluids is an issue as well. There are lots of synthetic blended oils on the market. I'm no chemist, but I think that's a blend of synthetic and conventional oils, right?

The more I think about it, the less I have an issue with using the synthetic that @TrailGuy2016 mentioned (Itemitsu WS ATF) because it's viscosity specs are very very close to Toyota's WS. I guess MaxLife's viscosity is thicker and I'd be a little uncomfortable mixing viscosities. I guess there are plenty of people running Maxlife with zero problems so take that into consideration as well.

Anyways, those are my thoughts at the moment. I reserve the right to change them tomorrow

 

Ended up biting the bullet and getting me a case of Aisin WS