Tire wont rotate when using jack to change rear brakes

Hello Team,

Firstly, refer to this forum alot so many thanks for everyone's input.

Need some advice, i like to do all my own maintenance. I have a stuck brake caliper (drivers side, rear). I bought all the parts and jack up the truck from that wheel.

The problem i am having is the tire wont rotate? I am trying to spin the hub so i can use that pin hole in the rotor to back off the parking brake shoes to then remove the damaged rotor/disk.

I am assuming its something to do with the 4x4, since i did all my FWD camry's brakes in an afternoon and rears were spinning fine. I know the Limited model is in permanent 4x4. I tried the H4L setting as i remember that allows some sort of free wheeling, but didn't help.

Just a regular diy guy so don't have any fancy lifts or anything, i have a heavy duty jack with four jack stands.

If changing the rear brakes requires a lift or something that would be upsetting as i do enjoy looking after the truck and making sure everything is done correct even down to torque settings.

How can i safely lift the truck in my garage?

Truck is a 2016 4Runner Limited.

Or am i doing something wrong all together?

Thanks,

 

You could chock the front tires and raise both rear tires off the ground so that they can spin freely via the differential. Put the jack under the differential and then put jack stands under the axle.

 

Lifting both rear tires off the ground should allow the rear tires to spin.

 

Chock tires well and make sure you have released the parking brake lol Lol, it happens, so I thought Id mention it.

If that doesnt help…Is it the stuck caliper keeping things from rotating? It wouldn’t turn at all if that was the case. You would need to take out the slide pins from the back and work that half of the caliper off to free the rotor.

Or is it that the tire freely rotate slightly either direction but stops due to the drivetrain? You probably need to lift both rear tires at the axle. Make sure the center locker is off. And remember to chock front wheels in both directions and depress brake pedal with a 2x4 wedged against the seat bottom. Can never be too careful!

 

You can put the transmission in neutral, that'll let the rear driveshaft spin though the center diff.

 

So is my process steps correct:

1) Place in Park
2) Lift from dif pumpkin (is that not too much weight?)
3) Place jack stands under each axle bar from the dif pumpkin
4) Rear wheels should move freely

Or does it have to be in H4L or Neutral?

Thanks for the quick reply everyone!!!!

 

Start simple, do you have the parking brake disengaged? You will need 2 tires up in the air on the same axle to spin one but this is not easily possible if you have a stuck brake. You will need to overcome the resistance of that brake to spin the other tire freely. If that's not possible then you will need to select neutral at the trans and overcome the resistance of the center diff.

H4L would lock the center diff so you would need all 4 tires off the ground.

 

If you're in Park, the rear wheels will not spin, even if they are off the ground.

You figure that when the transmission is in park, the vehicle won't roll away, and that's true whether the wheels are on or off the ground.

I made this mistake when doing my rear brakes. I knew that the rear wheels will not spin when in park but I wasn't thinking that I would need to rotate them. When I had It apart and attempted to remove the rotor, it was stuck and I realized I needed to adjust the parking brake to release the rotor.. So I jumped in the vehicle, steps on the break to shift the the transmission into neutral, and came to the back of the vehicle to find brake fluid dripping everywhere.

With the caliper off, pressing on the brake pedal shot the piston right out of the caliper. Doh!

So if you already have it apart, put the TRANSFER CASE into neutral, that will allow the rear wheels to spin without you having to step on the brake.

When lifting the rear, I would recommend using a jack under the differential, and then placing jack stands under the axle tubes as far outboard as you can. I typically leave the jack under the differential, just not holding the weight of the vehicle. When I have the wheels off, I place them under the rocker panels. This way three things would have to fail for the vehicle to fall on me.

Additionally, before lifting the rear, it's good practice to chock your front wheels so the vehicle does not roll.

 

If both are off the ground, the differential should them spin.

 

Mine didn't. /Shrug/

 

If they did then your car would roll away when it's in park! Park definately locks up the wheels

 

It locks the prop shaft or shafts (4wd or locked full time 4wd) at the trans but you still have a diff in the rear which is why you should always use your parking brake, not just in manual.

Terrible video but there it is: https://youtube.com/shorts/Aly8WICrPeE?si=_wVcHGCkKG1A2d-x

 

Maybe I'm wrong. If one side of the axle is driven directly by the ring gear, then it wouldn't allow that wheel to spin. Otherwise, they should spin in opposite directions via the differential while the ring gear doesn't move.

I guess I'm not familiar enough with our differentials to be sure.

 

There you go, the wheel on the side picked up is rotating in reverse direction because the other wheel has weight on it and spinning forward: https://youtube.com/shorts/4SeHoGE82S4?si=iuEdpQAYxmjlIM1d

 

I would have thought that too, that's typical open differential behavior.

I really don't know how to explain it, but I do know that with both wheels off the ground and the transmission in park, I couldn't turn the passenger rear wheel. Once I put the transfer case in neutral, I was able to turn it.

The only thing I can think of is that typically with other open diff/rwd cars I've had, with all things equal the passenger side is typically the "power tire". I didn't try spinning the driver tire, so I don't know if it was that.

 

Now I'm trying to think of a situation where someone was stuck and their driver's tire was spinning but not the passenger tire.

If it wasn't late, and cold outside, I'd be tempted to go jack up the rear axle and see what happens. Maybe Saturday morning.

 

Well, whichever side has the least traction is the one that's going to spin. If you try to flex your front driver side up on a rock or RTI ramp, chances are the driver side rear will spin first as it becomes unloaded.

I was thinking the same thing, if I have time Saturday maybe I'll do an experiment lol.

 

Right. But, if either tire is tied directly to the ring gear, it's going to spin no matter what.

 

Don’t forget the spider gears.

 

Is this directed at me?

 

Anyone. The spider gears is what allows for the differential action.

 

Yeah, obviously.

What I'm saying is that the idea of a "power wheel" suggests that one side of the axle is tied directly to the ring gear, while the other is allowed to vary in speed via the spider gears.

Or, how I thought ours worked was that the spider is driven by the ring gear, and both sides of the axle can vary in speed from the ring gear.

Based on diagrams I can find online, it's the latter. In which case, one should be able to spin both tires (in opposite directions) with it in park, as long as both tires are off the ground.

 

I used to think the ring gear side was always connected but I remembered when pulling my Ranger’s diff apart, you have to remove the C clip so the axle shaft would separate from the spider gear. It’s the same in our diffs, the axles shafts run through a spider gear. I believe OP was trying to overcome the locked up brake which is why he couldn’t spin the hub by hand.

 

That's what it sounded like.

But, now my curiosity is piqued. I've never actually tried spinning the tires with it off the ground, so it's going to nag at me until I try it.

Honestly, if it were summertime, I probably would have been outside trying it an hour ago. But, now it has to wait until the weekend.

 

I didn't mean to infer that one side was directed connected to the ring gear. I do believe if that was the case the differential would not function properly.

Anecdotally, it always seems that when one does a burnout in an open diff vehicle, it's always that pass rear that spins. For whatever reason torque wants to bias to that side.

Not always though. Torque takes the path of least resistance, I've experienced situations where the pass tire will start to spin, then will hook, and the driver tire will sand or other low track surface and start to spin.

In some situations, the open diff K10 squarebody with a 350 and 3.73s I had as a kid would spin BOTH in a straight line, at least till I put the 35s on, haha.

 

It could work, but it would be a shitty design. I just don't know how else you'd make it favor one side of the axle.

I'm guessing the passenger tire would tend to spin due to more weight on the driver's side, or maybe some weird physics that I don't understand.

 

With parking brake released the above would work. Spinning one tire causes the other tire to spin in the opposite direction, and the driveshaft wouldn't turn.

Based on your original post, I understand you already removed the stuck caliper and are doing this to remove the rotor.

The diff pumpkin can take the vehicle weight (and getting bashed on rocks off road).

 

Update: lifting both rear wheels from diff pumpkin and putting truck in N allows the wheels to turn.

I don't see how this wasn't covered even 50 youtube videos i watched on how to do it, cant be the first DIY guy to try it.

Its ok, know i know and hopefully others come across this thread and we continue developing this forum.

Thanks All.

 

I bet all those videos jacked it up from the diff.

So never had a reason to worry. I usually always jack it from the diff even if I'm planning on working on one side. Habit I guess.

 

Can confirm.

Same. It's just convenient.