New 4Runner owner, curious if this seems normal to more experienced owners

Previous thread here. Basically, bought a 2023 4Runner Sport XREAS with 30k mi on it, gold certified TPO. Turns out was given fraudulent vin check and it had been in an accident.

Lots of issues become obvious on the highway or when it's really hot that were not obvious when it was cooler (<80 degrees) and <55mph. Also, rough pavement has terrible ride & handling including some rumble steer. I took the car back immediately and they said all 4 wheels were unbalanced, everything else is perfect. I drove home and did not feel it was safe. I took it to another dealership and they found nothing wrong, said I'm just inexperienced with 4Runners. I have a lot of experience working on cars, but not on 4x4, RWD, this kind of suspension. I have driven a 4Runner on a road trip and it felt very different on highway. Curious what people's opinions are on some things that stand out to me. A lot of these things are somewhat intermittent, but >80 degrees, especially if the car has been parked in the sun, or at speed, and it's consistently noticeable.

Pics/movies/sound recording
Buzzing 1
-In the parking lot picking up from dealership. Hear this really loud buzzing when I start up, they say normal.
Buzzing 2 / Buzzing 3 (basically same)
Tried poking around to make sure the sound was coming from transmission/transfer case area and not a head shield or exhaust.

Shifting
Shifting between park/drive/reverse. It's not always bad, sometimes very smooth. Sometimes very hard. I would put the sharper shifts here as medium. I thought that was a lot of movement; I didn't capture it well, but when that hard shifts occur the transfer case really moves a lot compared to the rest of the rest of the car.

Tie Rod comparison
This would be an improper tie rod install on my past cars, if not just frozen or failed. Right wheel's boot has a tear. Looks like they tried to fill it with grease, but the grease is super hard feeling. They say totally normal/brand new-esque.
Tie Rod close up

Serpentine Belt
Serpentine belt has more wobble than my 20 year old, 220k mi Volvo. Most belt movement seems to be around Idler2 and the PS pulley? They say it's way too soon to service. The PS bearing looks pretty rusted to me as well.

Engine Sound
Tried to record engine when it was sounding off, but I'm not really confident about this.

Suspension sound
Tried to record the suspension sound, it's a bit hard to hear in the recording but it's quite loud in the car.

Lane drift
Tried showing the way the car pulls to the left but didn't want to kill my cameraman. I think you can see how much the car is rocking though even though the road is pretty flat. What's weird is that the suspension rides pretty hard despite it having this weird lurching/swaying motion at times.

Symptoms:
-Steering can be very stiff, sometimes loose, sometimes loose in one direction more than the other. Partner is v petite and she finds it near underivable on the highway; around 50% power steering maybe less at times. Figure tie rods, ball joint/LCA, or accessory issue? Car can really pull to the left on the freeway, and when the road curves the right with a decent cross-grade towards median and I'm in the left lane, the car is not easy to control.
-MPG is very low in the city - has been ~12.5 mpg driving in the city, . Drove 2 hours on freeway up in Wisconsin and it was fine though- right around 19-20.
-Driving on freeway has a whine sound, maybe accessory belt, not sure tho
-Right front wheel seems to get very bouncy on rough surfaces, but rides hard af. Even on really flat surfaces it can develop a sort of fluttering feel, and clanking sound. Reminds me of a bad control arm. Did not find any loose heat shields or skid plates.
-Shifting P>D>R CAN be very hard but also smooth as silk other times. Can take a very long time to go from 2R>4Hi>2Lo - just blinks forever. Dealership said I just shouldn't drive in 4D anyway..
-Lurching forward-to back on freeway - can't tell if it's suspension or shifting related.
-Can have very loud buzzing sound from around transmission/transfer case when idling or in park. Not always, but sounds like a bee hive when it's bad.
-Engine sounds really off sometimes; almost like how my last car sounded when PCV was bad. I did notice when it was really seeming bad, it immediately got smoother with dipstick out.


Both dealerships say this shit is all normal, I just don't know what 4Runners are like and am nitpicking. I admit some real 4Runner ignorance and curious which of these stand out to y'all. I don't want to harp on anything that's normal, but right now I can't tell what's normal or not. I am pretty keen trading the vehicle in for a different one, and am curious which are most glaring issues to y'all or if I'm just crazy lmao. Idk just super pissed at them and myself at the moment.

 

Wouldn't the fact of the fraudulent vin check and the accident not being disclosed be enough to get your money back? Did you find out the extent of the accident?

And no, none of the issues you describe are normal for a 1 year old 4Runner.

 

You can get your money back or sue. Here's how: Warranty. No, not the vehicle warranty, but warranty of TITLE. The dealership sold you the vehicle with issues.

A warranty of title is a guarantee from the person transferring the property (grantor) that the grantor owns the property and that the property is clear of liens, mortgages, or other encumbrances that may affect ownership (other than those disclosed in the deed).

The guarantee provided by a warranty of title are made in the deed and, as discussed below, depend on the deed form. If the guarantee turns out to be false, the person receiving the property (grantee) can sue the grantor for breach of the warranty of title.



The dealership did not disclose the odometer roll back or accident. They are in violation of breach of warranty.

 

Take it back. They lied about the condition in a fraudulent way. There is no way a 1 year old 4R should have any of these issues.

 

The longer your list of complaints the more skeptical I get. Unless your 4Runner rolled down the mountain, most/some of the things you are complaining about ought to be automotive Munchausen.

As I said here focus on 2-3 major things and go through the process of unwinding the deal. Getting list to 20+ issues will not help you unwind the deal.

 

It was a fraudulent sale. Contact attorney general. Any messing about indicates bad intentions. Get your money back, and find someone to help you buy a vehicle. The very fact you have considered keeping this vehicle shows you need assistance.

 

It would be much more easily resolved if they were convinced I was correct about the issues with the car and attempted to do right by me. Already spent the last 2.5 years in a lawsuit after being rear ended. Bring right doesn’t always lead to the best outcome in court, plus I need a car for work.

 

I don’t want to keep the vehicle. However, lawsuits and attorney generals etc are not easy or fast outcomes. It would be much easier to feel confident in understanding the issues and getting them to make things right. I would like to be accurate in my assessments when I speak to them next.

 

I don’t want a list of 20+ things, I’m asking which of these things seem like the biggest deal as owners of the cars since I’m not sure which of these are the most glaring.

As for rolled down a mountain… maybe? Like I said, I was given fraudulent vin check. What I was shown said 1 owner, no accidents. Instead it was a rental fleet car that got 30k miles in under 11 months and an accident. I could easily see people renting the car fucking up all sorts of crap by abusing it off roading, improperly using the 4WD selector etc.

 

I never saw whether you bought this at a Toyota dealership or not. If so, I'd think you could pursue the recourse of them certifying and selling a vehicle that did not qualify for that due to the condition, and go through Toyota (or whoever certifies previously owned vehicles) instead of the dealer.

 

Regarding the issues you listed, the one that stands out to me the most is your complaints about the inconsistent effort to turn the steering wheel. Your power steering rack may be toast. Maybe because of the accident damage, or maybe because is was driven like a rented mule for 30k miles. A normal 4runner on stock tires should have very light steering. It also transmits the road surface to the steering wheel somewhat more than many road cars that have more stable/heavy steering. It shouldnt be harsh when transmitting the road surface though, since all the big fat rubber bushings in every suspension component should be filtering out harshness.

Lane drifting:
The lane drifting may or not be normal, depending on what you are used to driving. The rack itself could have physically damaged pistons that lead to binding or friction differences throughout the steering range of movement.

However, many people used to cars with strong wheel centering will complain that 4runners feel flighty wt highway speeds. My first impression when I bought mine new, was that the steering had much weaker return-to-center than my previous road cars or our 18 Highlander. It requires more attention and minute adjustments on the highway than a road biased vehicle as well. This is a trait of 4runners, and it comes from its steering and suspension geometry. The trait can be made worse if tire pressures are set too high. So definitley make sure pressures are good. Shitty tires, bad alignment, and/or tire balance can also lead to the steering wheel wobbling gently around center.

Shifting noise:
Whenever I park, if I don’t relieve driveline strain before applying the parking brake, I can cause that park->reverse clunk on demand. You can prevent this clunk from happening by making sure to lift your foot off the brake pedal slightly when you put it in park *before* applying the parking brake. Or, pause in neutral, apply parking brake, then put the trans in Park.

Idler movement:
Yeah, that looks like too much movement to my eye. Don’t think mine moves like that at 70k miles on the odo.

Buzzing bees:
I’m not sure where that noise comes from, but many 4runners seem to have it. It generally goes away once warmed up. Mine doesnt always make the noise, but it often does (since new). Maybe it’s a noisy idler pulley? Or the sound of the alternator? Not sure, but it is a common complaint.

Tie rods:
Can’t tell any big issues there. One of them might be new; judging from a nice looking boot with grease coming out of the bottom. There shouldn’t be grease coming out.

transfer case: 4runners cannot physically engage 4wd if the system has any tension or binding in the driveline. The light will continue to flash until stress is relieved and things can line up mechanically. Don’t attempt to engage if your steering wheel is turned, or when turning. Read the instructions carefully for how to engage 4hi and 4lo. The biggest reason I would not buy a previous rental is because it’s possible to wreck the transfer if it’s constantly being engaged incorrectly, or if they are used on dry roads. Pretty much every renter is going to try to do it wrong. Probably multiple times. Not to mention drivers who throw it in 4wd for drives around town in dry conditions. So if that car has been rented by 100 different people…yikes, you could imagine how much that TC has potentially suffered.

 

Sounds like they sold you a Bronco disguised as a 4runner.

 

Thank you, that’s helpful. I seriously think I’m going to blow a disc driving things thing on the highway the ride is so harsh. I know steering is different and would feel different- and it felt pretty normal at first (and still does occasionally). But on the highway with AC blasting, it is crazy how hard it is to steer. Gf doesn’t like she’s strong enough. I can do it but yeah, very difficult. No idea how two dealerships test drove it and couldn’t see the issue.

 

Yeah, when I bought mine, the ride felt like I was driving on pillows. The closest comparison I could make was that it rode like a late 90’s early 2000s Lincoln continental or crown vic. It’s a soft comfortable boat.

This things has so many big cushy bushings everywhere, that I find it hard to imagine a harsh 4runner. Some of what describe could be a blown shock. Or maybe there are torn LCA, UCA or steering rack bushings. I suppose something in the suspension could be bent causing binding in the suspension stroke.

 

So how long has it been since your purchase?

Being its a certified pre own, you bought it from a Toyota dealership? If so I'd get toyota corp. on the phone and explain what's happening with them giving you a Vin/carfax to look at and it's wasn't even the 4runner you bought.

As for the issues I'd take it to and independent shop for a post purchase inspection. See if they can find the issues.

 

Well, except for the fact that 4Runners DO tend to ride and drive terrible when compared to a modern sedan or crossover/CUV.

 

But not compared to other 1 year old 4Runners. OP has said he's driven a recent year model 4R, and it was nothing like this one.

The one fact that has not yet been determined is whether the OP bought this "certified" 4Runner from a Toyota dealership.

 

This is quite common actually, every time i rent a car, truck, whatever it is, i rent it with the "drop the keys off" insurance. Its only like $7 a day and i know i can do whatever i want with the vehicle. I have often dropped the vehicle off on a spare tire, with the bent rim and blown tire in the trunk. I have had one get wrecked while i had it, someone backed into me while i was parked. All sorts of stuff happens and a lot of times renters dont give a single shit because "it aint minez" and absolutely tear them up on purpose and by accident.

 

He has a TRD Sport with the Xreas suspension, that is a Limited, 4wd, with 20" Limited wheels and Bridgestones. That vehicle rides absolutely amazing box stock, on road and small washboard gravel roads, the Xreas absolutely shines.

 

I said multiple times it was a gold certified TPO, bought from a Toyota dealership 2 weeks ago,

 

That’s true, definitely noticed that when test driving a Highlander, but I didn’t really like it as much. I fell in love with the 4Runner on a week long road trip I took a couple summers ago. Felt very different on the highway. Also last two cars were a 2010 (150k mi) and a 2004 (220k mi). Was driving both up to a year ago. So it’s not like I’m coming from a Lexus suv or something.

 

Not in this thread. You mention dealerships more than once, but never specify Toyota. I'll get out of this thread and leave you to it.

 

And this thread is why I haven't bought a used car since I was 22yr old!

 

I didn’t realize the OP has xreas. There’s a real possibility the system leaked out and is causing the harsh ride and noises.

@rorunner23 I know you said you weren’t considering getting a lawyer, but certainly the toyota certified program must be able to do something? Have you reported this to them or heard anything from them?

I don’t see the point in working it all out with the dealer. Even if they are cooperative, fixing one issue through the dealer can take a huge amount of time where you wont have transportation. They also have very little motivation to recognize any of the problems you report.

 

Look, OP, the consensus here is that you need to get rid of this bag of problems asap, so next step is up to you. If you want people to assure you everything will be okay, it won't come from this discussion.

 

What a shit show

 

Did you test drive it before purchase?

I would get a trade in quote from those dealerships that said it was normal and buy a new one or sell it to Carvana or another on-line site.

 

Don't try to fix a deal with people that lied to you to get you into the deal.

Drop it off at the dealer with the understanding you're not paying. Unwind the deal, because it can't be fixed otherwise.

ETA: you might also get a large rear window decal that says, "Get Overpriced Lemons and Lies at XYZ Dealership"

 

Take it to an independent shop and get all your issues diagnosed. Have them do a used vehicle inspection and then take that to the dealership and tell them to either fix or you are calling corporate and getting a lawyer.

 

My goal is to get a different vehicle and avoid litigation. I felt it would be easiest to accomplish that with people agreeing which things I’m noticing are indeed obvious issues to them as well.