Looking for advice designing a lift - 23 ORP w/ KDSS

Hello everyone, I want to lift my 4Runner in the future and am looking for advice building a new lift - specifically what I need to add in terms of modifications (and what I dont need).

I have a 23 Off road with KDSS. The truck is stock right now, but this year I want to add a few things and am looking to 'future proof' the truck so that it will suit my needs down the road. My goals are:

- towing my boat and trailer (~3000lbs) to fishing/hunting spots in the backcountry
- replace the rear bumper with a new one fitted with a tire carrier
- seasonal rooftop tent
- add 1-2" of lift for a more ground clearance, and improve the suspension so that it can handle the additional weight of the above. I want to maintain the rear-front rake in anticipation of towing and hauling gear

Those are the goals. I have never lifted a vehicle and am still learning about whats necessary to modify and what isnt.

What I know I will need: front and rear springs + shocks, brake controller, antisway/weight distribution hitch

What I'm not sure I need or not:
- panhard bar correction kit?
- upper control arms?
- kdss spacer kit?
- differential drop kit?
- larger tires?
- regearing.. ??
- transmission cooler?

I put ?s after these because to be honest, as a person new to 4x4 world and looking to modify my truck - its a bit overwhelming and there is conflicting opinions and information all over the place. Some people say I will need to do these changes as well, some say the springs and shocks are enough, some people dont bother adjusting the suspension geometry, some push for changing gear ratios, some people just send a lift kit, some install a transmission cooler for towing.... its difficult to navigate as a newcomer. Most of my confusion is around what additional modifications I will need to perform to the suspension system considering I have the KDSS version of the 4runner. And I'd like to prepare myself with a bit of knowledge so that I dont get ripped off by the overlanding shop.

Ultimately, I want to achieve my above stated goals, while maintaining the stock suspension geometry to the greatest extent possible. I dont want to push the vehicle too far and compromise performance or safety. And avoid unnecessary wearing of components as much as possible.

So I'm looking for some tips and info from anyone who has experience or has performed similar modifications to the above - how did you do it? Recommendations and pitfalls to avoid?

Thanks in advance for your input

 

I think you're going to find opinions that are all over the place. I can't speak to your suspension because I'm not familiar with the KDSS and it's workings. I got rid of the XREAS system on my Limited and went with OME (Old Man Emu) springs and shocks on both the front and rear with front diff drop, and aftermarket UCAs. I also have aftermarket wheels with larger tires (275 65 R18). Works well for my purposes. What I can speak to is the brake controller. REDARC. Just superior in every way to traditional controllers. Easily hides behind the dash, one dial control, easy to adjust, and fairly easy plug and play install. I also think you're smart to go with an anti-sway/WDH. It's just safer. Again, you're going to get arguments on both sides, so make the choice that feels best for YOU. I don't think re-gearing is necessary, you should be able to tow 3000# without much problem. Know that 5th gear is going to be basically useless when towing. Use the "S" mode in the transmission to hold gears. Trans cooler is never a bad thing. Inexpensive addition that will definitely help.

 

Thank you for the reply. I will look in to REDARC. I have also seen lots of recommendations to tow in S4.

I live in a very mountainous region and its up and down all day across all terrain, which is why I am really interested in a transmission cooler. Its winding mountain roads everywhere here. And summer temps are 30-40 C° on average so I feel the transmission cooler is going to be vital with towing through the mountains

 

Hey OP
Great purchase getting your hands on a '23 Off Road
I have '16 Trail (Off Road) also w/ KDSS.

I upgraded to OME front lift springs, ICON rear springs, 4x Bilstein 5100 shocks; 3" lift in front 2" lift in rear. Bilstein is a solid product, 5100's are affordable, satisfactory performance, in a good way. I don't think you need the higher end Bilsteins, I think 5160, 6112, 8001$$$
I upgraded to LT285/70R17. And aftermarket 9" wide wheels.
I did the UCA's because of the lift size and tires.
Because of this ^ I would benefit from a little bit of KDSS correction (brackets and spacers). But I haven't done so yet.

I did the diff drop, but now I would skip it. The Tinkerer on YouTube has a good video debunking it's substantial benefits. It lowers your ground clearance, and doesn't give you a heck of a lot of angle correction. It's cheap, so whatever, I'd say skip it.

I don't tow much yet.
Re-gearing. I recommend a Pedal Commander device for no more responsive throttle. I've read a heck of a lot on re-gearing because I've just about modified enough to run 35's, like a madman. It's a lot of money to swap the front and rear gearing. Only worth it if you run 34-35" tires.

https://offroad.bilstein.com/en-us/products/bilstein-b8-5160/

 

https://www.4runners.com/threads/considering-kdss-or-not.32561/
https://www.4runners.com/threads/i-love-this-kdss-thing.33634/

 

Adding 1-2 inches for ground clearance as you stated above is the way to go. We also have a 23' TRDORP KDSS I just finished a lift on and this is the 3rd one of these I've done. For me 2/1 lift with Bilstein 5100's on all 4 corners, a Cornfed 1 inch spacer and 275/70/17 tires is the sweet spot. Any higher and you'll probably need UCA's and a possible cab mount chop and more MPG drop.

I set the front struts on the 3rd notch for 1.75 inch lift and add a 1/4 spacer to the top for a total of 2.25 inch lift, this gives about 1.5 inches of rake. The rear is a simple 1 inch spacer from Cornfed, they have everything from 1/2 inch to 2 inch so you can dial in the rake you like. The 3rd notch and spacer help with ride quality keeping it smoother than the 4th notch at 2.5 inch but still firm.

 

That sounds like a nice setup. Larger tires arent actually something major on my list but I just figured I could get a little more ground clearance if I went up one size to 275s, and that way (from my understanding) I wouldnt need new rims, I wouldnt have any rubbing concerns with the fenders and I wouldnt need to regear anything. I would consider even going up to 285s if I could be sure that rubbing, existing rim size and regearing wouldnt be a concern.

When you say you could benefit from a correction - is that two separate kits you would need then? The panhard correction and the KDSS spacers, are those two separate purchases?

Ive seen the diff dropper recommended on videos but im not exactly sure why people get it. Is it just to deal with the driveshaft angle change from the lift?

Thanks for sharing these threads. I did check them out and they have some good information and things to consider.

I really wanted a factory rear locker with this new truck, and here in Canada you only have two options for the rear locker on a new 4Runner:
1) the Off Road trim (theres no OR Premium trim up here, its just the Off Road and KDSS is standard, not an option that you can select - all off roads come with it and it cant be removed as an option), or
2) Pro - which has the rear locker but no KDSS, and a hefty price tag - its an extra $11,000 CAD to jump up to the Pro from the Off Road, and after crunching the numbers its really not worth it - like $6 worth of mods and a $5k extra just for the Pro name.

Knowing now that I want to do these modifications on the truck and what my long-term goals are - I actually would have preffered a non-KDSS model. But again I wanted the rear locker and didnt have an extra 11 grand to burn so I had to take the KDSS model. And not going to lie, I really do enjoy the KDSS - especially in the mountains where I live - I just wish it didnt complicate the modification process as much as it did.

Awesome man. Yeah I love this truck so far just would like a little more clearance for sure.

That sounds like a good setup and you arent the first person to recommend 5100s all around. Can I ask why you opted for the spacers? From what I've been reading/watching they generally aren't recommended. Was it a price constraint? If there wasnt a price concern would you do the same setup or change it a bit?

Have you done anything in terms of KDSS correction ?

 

Which one do you have? The Tow-Pro Liberty? It looks really nice and minimal design which I like.

 

I went with the Elite because at the time I was pulling an offroad capable trailer. I think the Liberty would be just fine.

 

Ah ok. What kinds of things are you towing and what sort of max weight do you tow? Like I said above my boat + trailer + fuel + gear is around 3000lbs so Im interested in the Liberty bc looks like thats what is recommended for 1 or 2 axle trailers

 

I was towing an Airstream Basecamp 20X. I think the reason I went with the Elite was because it has a mode for loose gravel and sand. The Basecamp 20X is an offroad capable trailer, so that was a consideration, and I will say it worked as advertised. Kind of like an ABS for the trailer. For what you're doing, you will be happy with the Liberty.

 

So I'm assuming spacers instead of longer lift springs?
I did no spacers, longer lift springs, and left my spring perch at the lowest, 0", stock ride height (as per manufacturer)
But
I wanna raise my front Bilsteins to the first groove up, adding extra lift for extra weight I've added
But
As far as I know, clicking up the Bilstein adjustable settings will make your ride stiffer and stiffer, no?

 

https://www.4runners.com/threads/su...ring-seat-above-0-w-ome-3-lift-springs.30911/

 

I will need to check my wheel offsets. I have the factory trd offroad rims with those stock Grantrek tires for the summer set, and my winters are blizzaks on a set of the black Toyota oem steel spare rims

 

Nice, and you got 4 Toyota spare steelys wow.

I use this website as my wheel offset cheatsheet:
https://trail4runner.com/2021/02/05/factory-5th-gen-4runner-wheel-options/
I think you're +15mm

 

Yeah winters are quite harsh here and last 7 months and they use road salt and brine everywhere, its brutal. Its just easier to have a dedicated winter set on steels rather than having to swap out the rubber twice a year or beat up the nice trd off road rims that came with the truck.

I believe they are +15 from what ive read yes (the trd off road ones). Im having a hard time finding an offset for the oem steel ones though

 

I hope you've read through some or the threads on coatings for the frame. If not, here ya go.
https://www.4runners.com/threads/so-we-bought-our-first-4runner….35940/page-2#post-536960

 

I hear ya, season changeover is quick and cheap and gives you the best compound for summer and best for winter. Winter hasn't been as hard on the wheels as one may expect.

I run one wheel all year in a high salt region pretty near ocean. I opted for all-weather 4-season m+s tires so no season changeover. Mickey Thompson Sider Biter ll rims are aluminium so not rusting, plus there a lip - the wheel face is inset a bit. Believe it or not, next to no damage after almost 3 years.
Mickey Thompson Baja ATZ tires have what looks like a protective outer facing raised lip around the edge where they meet the wheel which guards from curbs, it's one of their selling features I've enjoyed.

Spare steel rims: fyi, I've slowly been deep searching for answers on their specs for months now.
They may be 4R trim specific so an offroad has 7.5" steely, others have 7".
Or
They may just all be 7" wide

 

Thanks for sharing this! Actually getting a coating for the frame was one of the few things I knew I had to do ASAP as a true Canadian I had Krown applied in September as soon as I picked up the truck, just two weeks before the first snowfall so the timing was perfect haha. Krown is an oil-based spray product kind of like fluid film and its the go-to rustproofing service up here.

 

going to expand on djwantke

What I'm not sure I need or not:
- panhard bar correction kit? No, only 3"+ lift (agree with this)
- upper control arms? 50/50 I'm not sure (yes get control arms if you're going to install a lift. this will help when you get an alignment, you're already spending 4 figures on suspension, what's another $600?)
- kdss spacer kit? No, only 3"+ lift (agree with this)
- differential drop kit? No (agree with this)
- larger tires? 50/50
I say yes, do 275/70/17. It's not necessary it just looks nice
- regearing.. ?? No (depends, with added weight and potentially bigger tires, you'll need to re-gear. you’ve increased the mass of your vehicle and you now need more torque if you want your acceleration, shifting points, and power band to feel “normal” again.)
- transmission cooler? Yes, if you can that's smart. 4R works hard towing (agree with this)

 

As far as spacer goes a 1/4 inch you won't have any issues and it make the vehicle ride much better than going up to the top notch. As for price I would do 6112's in the front over 5100's but it's much more $$$ for not a lot of benefit unless you're running them hard. I would throw the spacers on the 6112's too!