Lifting and other thoughts

This fellow has some real world knowledge and experience (my opinion only)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAYGdcKSA3o&list=WL&index=1

 

Another excellent video. His visuals are so perfect to get the point across.

I think I’m due for new tires soon, and want to go to 285/70-17, so very timely. I never realized that high caster UCAs would make clearing the body mount worse. Because it moves to top pivot rearward to get it. You end up with higher caster numbers, but only because that top pivot is further back… his visuals were gold. Honestly, it’s almost obvious, but I needed the visuals to understand it. Now I wont need to worry about getting aftermarket UCAs if I rub back there. But I doubt I’ll rub since I’m gonna stick with stock wheels.

I really want some nice wheels, but lack of disposable money makes not buying them easy lol. And yes, I love the deep dish broverland look, but those would definitely force additional expenses to make them clear at full articulation.

 

This video makes me want to have CAD files before making any changes.

 

I have no idea but there are little things fry my brain.

- TRD Pro gets 1in lift for +4 offset wheels, not sure if there's a reason.
- Other manufactures like Jeep, Ford gets a lift for bigger tire models, not sure if there's a reason.
- Aftermarket suspensions seems to have a bigger metal block looks just like a spacer (Eg - Look at Kings) ,not sure if there's a reason may be to prevent the shocks compressing all the way like stock shocks. Does the stronger springs on lift prevent the front tires compressing all the way?
- Why do some aftermarket suspension have pilot point to move? (No idea about the reason)
- Sway bar and end links seems to keep pulling forward & sway bar relocation kits pushes the sway bar even forward.​

Again I have no clue. Just what keeps me thinking "why"?. Probably now you will have nightmares thinking why

May be give it a try if you can fit the 285's with out lift and keeping the mud flaps. That was my goal atleast so I don't have more wear an tear on my axles and other related components.
I think 255/80R17 would most likely help you to achieve that. Just an idea. (Even though the looks of 255 & Load E comfort is not my cup of tea.)

 

I actually have a lift already. But as this video points out, it doesn't help with clearing anything on toyota IFS. I don't think I’m gonna have any problem fitting 285/70s on my stock wheels, besides maybe a little trimming of the plastic, which is not a big deal.

All your questions are similar to mine, but watching various of his videos on toyota IFS have really made me understand a lot better how it all interacts. The only thing, is that his videos are more like a very interesting university lecture. You have to be concentrating when you watch them. Every word he says means something, and the pace is quick. I have to use the pause and rewind buttons frequently when I watch them.

Edit: Pros dont get a lift to clear the tires. They get a lift because it gives better ground clearance and because it looks better.

 

Didn't help me though

 

Excellent video.

Thanks for posting!

 

what didnt help what?

 

Fitting 285s at stock height. Already had bumper trimming and mud flap flatten before installing 285s. Had rubbing at Discount tire at the time of install, had rubbing after alignment (probably bad idea per the video since it says no to high caster alignment which is against the shop and many senior members advice in this forum).

So for now I have a minor lift so I could use it on pavement. In few months I might be ready to test on trails and see how things go. Might have to go 2.5ish front just like my other 4runners.

 

He didn't say no high caster alignment.

He said aftermarket UCA's that have a high amount of caster built into them can actually pull the tire backwards in the wheel well, but still give you high caster.

His advise was to go lower than a 2" lift and use stock UCA's so that you can maximize the forward movement of the LCA cam adjusters.

If you have 285's, stock wheel offsets, stock UCAs, and are having issues with rubbing with 285's then it's your alignment.

 

I posted the question in a local group where 3 4x4shops I have work with are in. Will see if anyone of them would reply. And will share here for the forum members.

 

I guess Im starting to see why this is all so complex lol. So many variables, and each varible is to satisfy a different requirement (which will then impact another).

So the general advice that an aftermarket UCAs might be needed after lifting 2.5 in or more is good advice, because the stock UCAs will probably not allow for caster to be in spec. For example, I have 2.5in lift, and caster was slightly less than spec. I dont mind it though. Currently I have stock OR wheels, so tire clearance was not a factor.

But maybe the problem is that advice on forums etc gets confused because the idea that higher caster numbers *do* swing the tire forward gets mixed in there. Which is true, but only stock UCAs will result in more body mount clearance, because it starts out in a more forward position than high caster UCAs. It’s like the ideas become conflated. It’s funny, in the video he said it was some sort of logical error. He’s such a nerd…I love it lol.

So, what type of wheels do you have @kmeeg ? Is offset the problem? Do you have spacers? If you are stock, then I’m surprised and want to find out why that’s happening too!

 

Long story short;

My only serious attempt ignoring 4x4shop no lift 285 was with stock TRD Pro wheels (+4).

Before this I wanted my Limited to have bigger tires 20x7 (+15) no lift but the shop said no without a lift. So went with Bilstien5100 had to give up on my fav onroad XREAS suspension. Later I changed to Ironman lift with 17x7.5 (+15) TRD ORP wheels. Only fender liner push was needed.

For my TRD ORP 17x7.5 (+15) wheels was lifted with 275/70R17. Later I got 285/70R17 with plastic trimming on bumper and flattened a bit on mud flaps. Took this on some serious trails.


Yeah, I posted the video link on FB group where the big 3 4x4shops I did business here in CO so will see if I get some explanation on this.

 

It's not that difficult. You are over thinking it. That video does a great job showing you how one affects the other.
Don't get hung up on "high caster" being the only type of UCA.

People forget that there are caster adjustments from factory at the LCA.
When only adjusting caster at the LCA, it will move the wheel forward. If adjusting LCA satisfies caster needs then job is done. Chances are it was a small lift anyway. If you are chasing caster numbers by way of UCA only, you are pushing your wheel back towards the body mount.

UCAs come into play when getting higher lifts and LCA adjustments are maxed out. Still, "high caster" UCAs may not be needed. "Regular" UCAs with a couple more degrees may get the job done. As mentioned in the video, high caster arms will negate the LCA adjustments and the LCA has to be brought back towards the body mount because of those UCAs.
UCAs are meant to "extend" the LCA adjustments, not to completely negate them.


Regarding the points you mention that "fries your brain"... Again, over thinking.
Manufacturers lifts the vehicle more for the appeal of the trim and price. They are not lifting it to fit the wheels. Earlier TRD pro 4runners didn't even have the bumpers trimmed
As for the aftermarket shock designs, it could be just a universal design to keep costs down.