LED vs halogen lights

I'm about to ignore my own advice (don't let others tell you what you need), but I will make one concession: don't spend money on LED headlight bulbs. They're unequivocally a waste of money. I went down that road and am back to halogen.

If you're interested in the reasons why, I recommend these threads made by a resident lighting engineer on Tacomaworld:

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/3rd-gen-hid-vs-led-vs-halogen-h11-projector-headlights.589465/

Fog light replacements:
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/the-led-sae-j583-fog-pod-fog-light-review.554813/

 

Tory,
Not to hijack this thread but quick question on this. I’ve seen many of your posts about LEDs and have read most of the linked threads. It sounds like LED bulbs aren’t the greatest and because the LED diode chip does not line up with the were the filament is on the halogen bulbs. This apparently causes uneven light spread from the projectors.
I saw the new bulbs from Lasfit that are allegedly angled so the LED chips are in the exact spot of the halogen filament. Have you seen these and if so what are your thoughts?

 

Most of the LED bulb makers have been able to utilize the newest generation of very small and powerful emitter chips by Philips and Cree. They are also able to place them reasonably in the same location (X and Y dimension) as a halogen filament. However, the one thing they are unable to emulate is the thickness of a halogen filament. All headlight housings (reflector or projector) are designed to collect and focus light from this tiny point in space, to project it far down the road where you need it. By their nature, drop-in LED bulbs cannot occupy a small enough space, because they need room for the heatsink and copper circuitry between the emitters cannot approach zero thickness.

Because of this, LED bulbs can actually be brighter than their normal halogen counterparts- but they can never match the correct focus. Focus is needed to "throw" the light far down the road. What results is a huge increase in foreground brightness, but a drastic dropoff in distance lighting. It looks great but you've considerably reduced your usable driving horizon and ability to react to objects down the road.

There are precious few exceptions that manage to get close to the factory distance projection, and they are covered in that thread. None of them get close to a performance halogen or H9 halogen upgrade.

HID bulb capsules can more correctly emulate a halogen filament, but those have their own problems- most seem to be an increase in glare above the cutoff, dazzling other drivers (a small amount of light is designed to "leak" above the cutoff to gently illuminate street signs, and HIDs can make this much too bright) and cheapo ballasts that often burn up and need replacing.

As far as bang for your buck, you can't beat H9 halogen bulbs for the low beams, and 9011 for the highs. Both require a small tab trim to fit, but can be picked up at any auto parts store for $6-8 per bulb.

 

I bought led lights for low and high beam headlight revolution. A 100% better upgrade. The stock OEM bulbs are terrible. If you buy quality LED bulbs they work and look great but they are pretty pricey. Low beams were $150.00 and high beams $179.

 

I also put in the OEM led foglights that come on the pro. Big improvement and bolt in exactly like your current fog lights. Plus they have a slightly smoked lenses that looks pretty cool and priced very well. I think I paid around $90 for foglights from a toyota dealer online.

 

$320 is a lot of money to spend, only to be handily beaten by $8 performance halogen bulbs. I went down that road too.

Again, the problem with drop-in LED bulbs isn't quality, or price, or brand names, etc. It's physics.

OEM LED fogs are fine. The housings are designed and built for their LED light sources. It's only the Frankenstein drop-in bulbs (LED into halogen etc.) that should be avoided.

 

I get what your saying and dont disagree with you. However the purpose of lights are to help you see better at night and with the LED I have installed its 100 percent better than the OEM halogen bulbs. Not to mention that halogen bulbs get way to hot and over time discoloring of your headlamp lens starts turning yellow just from heat off bulbs. Also the white color is way cooler looking than that old yellow halogen bulb. Lol

 

I have actually changed every bulb in my 4runner to LED interior and exterior. Except turn signals. Much better light output and more modern look. Back up bulbs without a doubt are much better than any halogen bulb you can buy. There is no way to get the light output of a LED bulb in your reverse lights which also is much safer for you as well as other drivers seeing you.

 

^^^
What he said. I went through $$$ until I realized the 8 buck H9s are best you can do short of a retrofit and then you need to cut the radiator bracket.
I'm guessing you didn't get the gtr2 bulb from HR because they cost more...had them. Good light to bad every led bulb in a 4runner projector messes with people's eyes

 

No I got Xenon Pro, that is what HR recommended to me. They fit perfect in dust cap and haven't had anyone flash lights at me yet. My 4runner is also lifted so I thought I might get flashed. The high beam is also Xenon pro which is made specific for 4runner so that you can run DRL at lower output through their included module. Very nice and happy with them. I purchased during a sale so prices may be slightly different.

 

So, the link I mentioned above specifically tested the XD LED bulbs. Here is the problem, and I need you to pay attention:

See the two distance measurements? The XD bulbs seem brighter because they are brighter, for about the first couple dozen feet. After that, they taper off in brightness because they lack focus, not brightness. So what you've effectively done is brighten your near field vision, at the expense of projecting distance. Imagine riding a bicycle and only looking down at the front tire the entire time. That's what you're doing.

The discoloration of headlight plastic has nothing to do with the heat of a halogen bulb. It's simply accumulated oxidation and UV exposure. You'll notice that you can polish your headlights on the outside to clear it up.

A whiter light might look cooler, but short wavelength light scatters more in fog and inclement weather. Yellower light has longer wavelengths that penetrate that stuff better. Halogen bulbs also produce lots of infrared radiation, warming and melting any snow/ice buildup. LED headlights will ice up.

 

Interior bulbs are fine, as they are not required to project distances at all. On the backup bulbs, there are actually brighter halogen ones.


See here: https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/gy6-35-hir-921-reverse-light-upgrade-vs-high-power-leds.474996/

 

I went through 3 different sets of LEDs and the halogens weren't close to any of them. Brightness, field of vision, and distance were all increased over halogens. Even the DRL is brighter than the halogen headlight. It may be trial and error, but when you find the right one there is a HUGE difference. Wouldn't a better picture be from inside the vehicle looking out?

 

Seems there is no winning any argument with science. In this particular argument folks want to defend a financial decision, there are a ton of videos on YouTube comparing LED vs halogen and real world experience is supported because 99% of time we’re driving on mostly well light roads so no one will really be impacted by less throw of the LED light.
I get the science of the focus and omnidirectional lighting being better in halogen projectors..it makes sense. I guess people just need to learn on their own ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I bought Lasfit LED for my 2020 based on all those videos and reviews. Then I read all the science on Tacomaworld... Probably just made a $175 mistake and I’ll probably learn that in the next few months.

 

I'm not goin to disagree with scientific facts, but they tested the XD bulbs which.arent very good. You get what you pay for and I can tell you in fact my high beams shine a hell of alot farther than stock halogen. And one thing no one has mentioned yet is longevity. Quality LED bulbs not ones from Ebay or Amazon will outlast halogens bulbs 10x over. About the heat of bulb not discoloring the lenses is just not true. Look at many autos interior light lenses and you see burn holes thru them and they are burnt yellow, so u cant say that is not true to headlamps as well just takes longer to turn them because of plastic used in headlamps.

 

Here is go. The worst set was the $1,100.00 morimotos. What had the most usable light was GTR2 but they hurt people's eyes....bad. XV2 may have been nice but the light pattern was like a Dalmatian. Spotty all over the road and annoying
I wasted my time and money on all of them and ended up with H9

https://www.4runners.com/threads/headlight-comparison-before-and-after.11875/

 

Man I would have looked at the xenon led pros. Excellent lights, top quality and as bright or brighter than gtr's. No modifications or grinding needed. Fit perfect and also fit inside low beam dust cap, not sure if gtr fit with dust cap. I wouldn't want to run lights without dust cap on and wires all zip tied everywhere. GTR is nice light I have used them before but the Xenon are made specifically for 4runner especially the high beam. Goodluck with them hope all goes well with install.

 

Interesting discussion with great points all around.

 

@Bob I think it might be a good idea to migrate this lighting discussion into its own thread, rather than clogging up someone's intro thread. Is that possible?

 

Copy Ghost Rider-Operation "Hi-Jack" Successful. Sorry couldn't resist. Poor guy hasn't been back in a week lol. Probably moved on.....

 

Just an FYI: the Xenon Pro bulbs you have are the same ones that are in the Tacomaworld test. XD stands for Xenon Depot, the company that distributes them. I had the same ones, as they were one of the few that could dim for DRL use. A nice bit of kit, and maybe they work fine in scattered high beam applications. But for low beam, they do not project as far as stock.

 

Here's an article on Jalopnik, interviewing Daniel Stern about why LED bulbs in halogen housings are a bad idea. It also references our friends at TacomaWorld in crashnburn80's thread:

https://jalopnik.com/why-most-led-headlight-upgrades-dont-really-work-an-ex-1843070472

 

Do the HIR bulbs in the quoted TW thread work in a 5th gen T4R?

 

Such great info here. A must read for anyone interested in lighting upgrades!

 

That's a picture from my 5th gen, so yes.

 

I just replaced the bulbs in my third gen. The former owner had put in a blue halogen (my guess is it was piaa), and I replaced it with a cheap silver star without the blue tint (also don't buy those from O'Reillys they charge 33$ for them and I found them at Walmart for 19$ after this). They are technically a lower end bulb but they look and work so much better. The blue filter removes a lot of light output and it narrows the beam as result. I prefer the warmer light anyway.

 

This is true. Halogen bulbs that are tinted to be cooler have bulb coatings that reduce overall output.

 

Are there any lamps that do NOT spoil the eyes? I also have silver halogen bulbs installed and have been thinking for quite some time about whether I should change them. This discussion, for me is generally like a nightmare; I want to try absolutely all the options that were mentioned here, only to draw my own conclusions. In addition to quality, I also have a requirement for visual appeal to lamps. I have trouble seeing a bright light, and the only thing that doesn't bother me at the moment is

$18 Vont Smart Light Bulbs [2 Pack], WiFi 2.4GHz & Bluetooth 5.0, Compatible w/Alexa & Google Without Hub, Dimmable, Music Sync, Schedules, Color Changing Light Bulb RGBW Smart LED Bulb, A19/E26 9W 810LM

smart light bulbs, lol. Hopefully, after this thread, I will still decide on the choice.

 

Yes, perhaps, the LED lamps are a clear outsider in comparison with halogen. It seems to me that it's not even arguing here. Moreover, the chip of the LED lamps does not coincide with the board on Toyota. In general, the truth is a waste of money. You're absolutely right. By the way, as for the light bulbs, I decided to order them for the salon to change the interior slightly. I wanted to make a red backlight. I ordered with the help of the site https://www.amazon.com/smart-light-bulb-bulbs-color/dp/b0922q43ly/. I hope someone comes in handy if someone wants to do the same.

 

@Bob can you clear these bots?