Introduction & Another Tire Size Thread

Hello All!

I'm a new member here, and fairly new to 4Runners. Always been a fan of Toyotas. Father and grandfather both have Tacomas, and my vehicle for a long time was a Sienna. As funny as that sounds, that thing was a beast lol. I bought a '22 ORP in late '21 and right now it's still bone stock. I'm in the research phase, trying to figure out what I want to do with it.

To give you some background in my wheeling experience, I've really only had one other 4x4 and that was a 1998 Wrangler, 4.0, 5spd, 33's, 3.5" lift, open diffs, stock gearing. I live in the southwest US so most of my adventures take me over rocky terrain with occasional snow. Although I'm still pretty new to off-roading, I'd say I've quickly become a skilled driver and can usually pick great lines without a spotter.

So, now that you know a little about me, here's my first sort of question, or series of questions, I'd like to propose. You guys must be exhausted by new members asking "what is the best tire size?" and "how do I fit 35's?" and so on. But I'm having a hard time finding much information about how all these different tire sizes actually PERFORM on the 5th gen 4Runner. All I see people talk about is aesthetics or how to fit 35's or what their axle gear should be or gas mileage. None of that has to do with how the different tire sizes stack up to each other when it comes to actual on- and off-road performance.

Here are my parameters:

• Going with basic 3" suspension lift, for now at least. Looking at at OME with the aftermarket UCA's.
• Probably go with a 17 x 8.5-9 (-12mm) wheel, or something like that. Pretty standard.
• I will not be using wheel spacers.
• I will be re-gearing. Tire size will determine my gear ratio. I prefer to crawl slowly in 4lo for almost any obstacle, taking advantage of lockers and aired down tires. I don't like breaking sh*t. The stock 4Runner could be geared lower IMO.
• I want to use a tire LARGER than 285/70 and NO LARGER than 35/12.5.
• Going with AT. Looking at the Wildpeak AT3W, which would limit me to 285/75, 315/70, and 35/12.5. I'm open to other brands/models/sizes though.
• Looks are not what I'm after. To me, 35/12.5 looks the best, but I'm interested in off-road and overall performance.
• I don't care about gas mileage.
• I will do any level of trimming to the body, body mounts, fenders, etc., but I don't want to get into any hardcore custom fabrication.

With those parameters in mind, here's what I want to know:

• Even if you get 35/12.5 to fit without rubbing at full turn on the road, do they still rub under hard articulation off-road? If so, what is the largest tire that does not?
• What is the largest size you can run without compromising other components (steering, brakes, axles, ball joints, etc.)?
• For those of you that actually wheel your 4Runners, and especially those who run 35/12.5, and ESPECIALLY those who have run a variety of sizes, how much of a difference is there really between 33's, 34's and 35's when it comes to off-road capability? I've only wheeled with 33's, and the 265/70 Bridgestone HT's lol.
• If you want to take it a step further, what do you think is the best off-road performing tire size is for the 5th gen 4Runner, or is there a size you gravitate towards, and why? Looking for specific sizes, not just 33, 34, 35 etc.

If you've gotten this far, thanks so much for reading this extremely long post and I'm looking forward to seeing what people have to say. For what it's worth, with the research I've done, I keep going back to 285/75. Seems like a good all around size. Part of me just wants to jump to 35/12.5, but I'm not sure if that is realistically a good idea. I'd like to hear it from you guys who have had these trucks for a while and wheeled with them.

 

Let just put it this way.

285s rub with most rims etc.

Good luck.

 

"I will do any level of trimming to the body, body mounts, fenders, etc., but I don't want to get into any hardcore custom fabrication."

I don't know if it's possible to fit 35" tires on a 4R without hardcore custom fabrication.

 

By "hardcore fabrication" I mean, for example, I saw one guy that completely relocated his body mount further back (not just BMC) to get more clearance for 35's. I don't want to do anything like that, or anything I'm going to have to hire out to someone to do structural welds. I'm ok with doing anything that can be done in my garage with a buzz wheel, sledgehammer, and other standard tools. And I can make metal stick together if I really have to.

I see all these pictures online of guys running 35's but my hunch is it's mainly for looks and they don't really wheel that hard. Sure maybe you can get it to not rub on the road, but it usually looks like there is little to no room for articulation. You'd really have to get into long travel and other major modifications for it to actually work. Am i right?

 

Hey there! Great post, I couldn't stop reading actually lol
Maybe cuz I have a vested interest. I have some threads and many posts on the subject of 35's. They might be my next tire. I've trimmed and chopped, everything, been virtually guaranteed by experienced shop I can run 35's no rub. Dunno if that means 12.5's.
I've only had 265's, and now run 285/70's load-E Mickey Thompson A/T's. 9" wide Mickey's rims, 1.25" spacers. 3/2 suspension lift. SPC UCA's 3.7⁰ caster. I believe I may need to adjust my OEM LCA's forward still. And let's just say I didn't rub much no body mount rub until spacers! Terrible on the trajectory. But my wheels are 0 offset 4.5 backspace so I wanted them

You may find something helpful in these links ↓
And here you go, Follow this man, he's doing 35's right now @captrussia253

 

Welcome! Just be ready to chop some stuff. If it was me, I'd stay around 2" of lift and trim/cut to fit tires, then regear. Enjoy the build.

 

Thanks so much for reading and for all the feedback. One thing I forgot to mention on my original post, I'd like to avoid using a body lift as well. I know I'm putting a lot of limitations on it... just trying to keep it as simple as possible and find the "sweet spot" tire size. Trying to figure out if 35's are even for me, even if you can make them fit. There's no question if they will fit with the right manipulation, as many have done it. And yeah, as you point out, a high negative offset just makes rubbing worse. I get it, the wide stance looks cool, but that's not that important to me personally.

 

Caleb, welcome to the forum. Just out of curiosity, what didn’t you like about your Wrangler? Based on where you are now and where you want to go, you will save a load of time, effort, aggravation and expense if you just trade in your 4Runner and get a Rubicon with 35’s from the factory.

 

I agree with the above. I had a 2000 wrangler on 35s and loved it for rock crawling.
My use of the 4R is very different and love it for what I’m using it for (long distances, camping, trails, light off roading).

Personally, I’ll keep the 4R forever and eventually get back a TJ for local trails to save the headaches and drawbacks of getting the 4R on 35s.

Whatever you do, good luck and share your build if you go that route!

 

Good point and that has definitely crossed my mind. Maybe my brain is just weird, but I feel like a jeep should have an inline 6, a manual transmission, and 2 doors. I'm not a fan of how the newer jeeps look (I know, ironic cause I said earlier I didn't care about looks) or the higher revving engines. I also know too many people with JK's and JL's that just have constant issues with them. Throw in other small inconveniences like me being 6'4" and the roll bar jabbing into my head, or the disgusting auto stop start, and its a no for me. Also, and I didn't mention this originally cause I didn't want to draw too much attention to it, but this 4Runner is my daily driver, and I do long road trips, and I'm interested in long distance off-roading and camping. And having 4 doors and an auto transmission is kinda nice.

But also let's put it this way... i won't be on flat dirt roads. I tried a trail over the weekend and the 265/70's just weren't cutting it. So that's sort of the kind of stuff I'm looking to do. Yes, rock crawling, but not some of the crazy sh*t like you see at Moab or Sand Hollow.

I didn't mean for the post to be all about 35's or no 35's. I just want to know what a good all around tire size will be for my purposes. I do want to go bigger than stock, but not without re-gearing. And if I'm already re-gearing, I might as well go as big as I can without causing too many issues. I'd like to go bigger than 285/70 if possible.

Yes, my thoughts exactly. Once I settle on a city and get into a house, I plan to start another TJ project and make this one into a real monster. I'm talking Dana 60s, 40" tires, hand throttle, the whole 9. But just as a toy for local trails. I feel the 4Runner best suits all of my needs at the moment.

 

Since you're re-gearing, it shouldn't be an issue, but one big factor with bigger tires on the 4R is how heavy they are.

 

I hear you should try not to turn hard, stopped, on dry ground with 35's on a Runner; steering components can't handle the force forever apparently?
Can you elaborate more thanks
OP: yeah no your post isn't all about 35's or no 35's. Hopefully, ultimately we attract first hand information for this question too

 

As the width and circumference of a tire increases, so does the surface area of the footprint. With increased surface area, the frictional force between the tire and the surface increases, which also means it takes more force to turn the tire. That’s what I was saying in the original post is that these components are simply not designed to withstand the forces that larger tires put on them. Or it causes them to wear out faster anyway. But there are factors of safety in Toyotas design so it can handle a larger tire to some extent. The question is at what point is it too big without fully upgrading to stronger steering/braking/suspension components.

I’m wondering if anyone here has experience with 285/75R17 (33.8x11.2R17). The weight and width are similar to the popular 285/70R17, but an inch taller. I think they’d fit with very minor trimming.

 

Yes sir, well said. I have the exact same question when it comes to 285 75's a true 33

 

I did the 3/2 lift with 285’s. Looked great and drove well, but ultimately I decided to remove the lift and go back to stock size 265’s, LT Nitto RG’s. I off-road about twice a month and have not experienced any decrease in capability. In my case, the only advantage of the lift was that it was a little easier to do oil changes.

Good luck

 

Welcome from Wisconsin! You might want to consider a tire with more rock resistance, as the terrain you stated you drive on is "rocky". We had an outing that went bad because of rock beating up on a tire.

 

Even with re gearing I don't think the 4runner on 35's would be a good road trip or long commute daily driver. The jump from 33" to 35" on our IFS takes a lot to do well.

For what you have described the needs for 285 will work fine. Honestly though strictly speaking off road performance 265 and 285 will behave the same or too close to matter.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4hcq0EIN9Wc&ved=2ahUKEwifyp3zsZiAAxXaAzQIHem5ABAQtwJ6BAgfEBc&usg=AOvVaw1SUQV4OJm1L2TcyeF8eFfk

 

That second link was a very good discussion and had a lot of the information I was looking for, so thanks! And thanks to everyone who has responded.

I'm sure I'll change my mind several times again before I get to the point where I actually build this truck, but from what I'm hearing, my suspicions are confirmed. "35's are for the gram" as one person put it. It's mostly people who just want them for looks. It will require a lot of work and hassle to make them really work correctly, and they are rough on the other stock components of the vehicle.

I'm puzzled by a couple of people who are saying they see no performance difference between 265 and 285, and wondering what these people's definition of off-roading is. On the 1-10 scale, I'm probably usually on difficulty level 3-5, with the occasional 6-7. My aim is not to go out and find huge boulders to crawl over just for the sake of crawling over huge boulders. To me, that's more for a pure toy vehicle, and a wrangler is better suited, hands down. But I'm also doing way more than just flat dirt roads. My intent with the 4Runner is more like: I want to be able to get to some really cool places that most people can't, and I want to be able to get through most obstacles that stand in my way.

I also want to clarify that daily drivability and gas mileage are not a huge concern for me. These trucks are not exactly honda civics in the first place, so I don't see why people are so concerned with that aspect. Does 16 mpg vs 13 mpg really matter? I have a 12 minute drive to work, and I'm willing to deal with the drawbacks on my occasional road trips. Most of my wheeling is local.

As I keep saying, and as confirmed by others in that other thread, 285/75R17 seems like a great "in between" size. Note that this is not the same as 285/70R17 which is what most people are referring to when they say "285". The 285/75 is about an inch taller than the 285/70 (33.8" vs. 32.7"), keeps the same width, and is not as heavy as a 35 inch tire. It seems it takes very little modification to make them fit as well.

All I know is with my '98 wrangler sport on 33x12.5R16, I could outwheel most brand new Rubicons on 35's that I was wheeling with. And I had open diffs and stock gearing. It's all about picking the right lines and crawling at an appropriate speed. I do want to go bigger than 285/70R17, but it seems 35x12.5R17 is not necessary.

 

For me it's all about the balance of on road and off road. I want the rig to be able to go anywhere. Driving for a day highway is part of that to get to the trails. 285 gain me a half inch to an inch of clearance. If you re gear then it's fine to turn the bigger heavier tires.

I am not ready to regear yet and not willing to take the performance penalty of the 285's. For most people I don't think they will notice any big off road gains going to 285. Yes I like the look of the 33" it just comes at a cost. I already fight weight and mods being able to maintain 80 mph and mountain inclines.

I am planning trip next year to Moab and the Alpine loop. I don't think 285's would make any difference for these trails.

 

I'm glad you caught that important detail which some people leave out of their advice, it drives me nuts!
Have you considered 305 70 R 17s?

 

Don’t over think it. Find a tire that puts a smile on your face and go for it. All tires have pros and cons.

 

That's right! Quite the diameter difference going from 285/70 to 75

 

Yes 305/70R17 is the same height as the 285/75R17, but just wider and probably heavier. I'm open to that size. The Wildpeaks, which I've been leaning toward, do not come in that size though.

Haha I'm a classic overthinker. I'm a mechanical engineer and obsessed over details and design. You're right though, any of these tire sizes will be a good time.

I know most people take it one step at a time and don't re-gear right away, but I personally refuse to go any bigger than stock without re-gearing. I want it to operate as close to the intended design as possible and I think the lower the gear ratio the better when it comes to off-roading. I always manually shift it down to 1st gear and keep it between 1st and 2nd when I'm in 4LO as well. I wish the 4Runner came with lower axle gears and 4LO transfer case gear from the factory.

Still, I find it interesting that some guys are saying the 265's are good enough for them and not much different than 33's. I've wheeled with both and see a huge difference. The 265's are pretty useless for my purposes frankly.

 

LOL. What’s your purpose again, exactly?

 

Agree about the gearing, the crawl ratio in the 4runner is pretty pathetic. I did the math, if I recall it's around 33 to 1. For comparison, even a Land Rover LR3 is 45 to 1. Never mind you can option out a Rubicon to be about 100 to 1.

As far as tire size, when people are talking about it 265 70 verse a 285 70, the 285 is only about an inch taller. As much as people like to think they're hardcore, I think most 4Runner owners are not bringing their rig to the maximum edge where an inch tire size would make a big difference.

Sounds like you're a pretty good driver and the TJ's was a really capable vehicle. Just keep in mind that basically no matter what you do to the 4Runner within reason, it will never be as good off-road as the TJ.

You ever a consider an 80 series? Sound like you'd like that vehicle better. I spent two weeks driving one last month, for 30-year-old vehicle it was very comfortable and drove great. This was on a 2-in lift with 33s, though he had room for 35s. Other than the mileage and the ride over choppy pavement, I actually liked driving it more than my 4Runner.

Those are solid front axle, and have pretty large wheel wells. You can fit a 33 stock, and 37 does not take that much lift. There are also plenty of gearing options for the axles and the transfer case, and that coil spring solid front axle can give you a ton of travel, unlike the IFS 4Runner with its little T-Rex arms.

If you do end up lifting your 4Runner, I would consider a 2-in lift. For every inch you go up, you use a an inch of down travel on IFS unless you go long travel. I've heard from multiple people that have a lot of experience with IFS Toyotas that 2" is the sweet spot up front, and more lift will not necessarily let you run a larger tire.

As for the wheels, I almost think that you'd be better sticking with the stock wheel.

 

I'm talking about a comparison between a 265/70 (31.6") HT's on a stock 4Runner vs 33/12.5 (33" and wider than the 265) AT's on a lifted jeep, so I guess it's not really comparing apples to apples at all, to be fair. My purpose is what some would call "overlanding" I suppose, but I also want to be able to face any mid-level obstacle that stands in my way (but also not going to go out of my way to take the more challenging route). The 265's are just small. With any 4x4, the bigger the tire the better for pure off-roading purposes due to added ground clearance and the literal ability to roll over objects with more ease. Also more contact area = more traction. And as a side note the 265's look comically small to me and just doesn't look right on the 4Runner. But to each their own. I'm simply stating my own humble opinion. But also that's why I want to to go to the 285/75 as opposed to the 285/70, so there will be a bigger difference from the 265.

All great info. Thank you. I'm that one guy who is pushing it to the limit lol so it does actually matter. I've already done some questionable stuff with my stock setup. Yes the TJ is just a better off-roader than a 4Runner and frankly most modern 4x4's honestly. And the 80 series is one of the best cars ever made. My buddy has one. But the 4runner is my only car at the moment and probably will be for a while. And I love it. Definitely weighed the pros and cons between 4Runner, Rubicon, and Bronco, and I chose 4Runner, and glad I did. I will be getting another TJ for desert rock crawling shenanigans in the future though.

 

My experience with daily driving 35s is a hit in gas mileage. I have 4.88. I have a long travel IFS that moves the wheels forward some to clear the back of the wheel well. I still did relocate the body mount, but I think I could have gotten by with a body mount chop. Maybe 37s later?

The breaks seem ok so far, but I baby them. The steering has been ok so far too, I’ve been on a few rock piles, but drive carefully. Both of these are still candidates for upgrades.

I think I’ve could have gone with a mid travel option, but it wasn’t well known at the time.

As for MPG, I’m doing 12 to 13 combined and 10 off road.

I have after market bumpers, skids and sliders to boot.

I’ve cut and tubbed where needed.

My takeaway is that you can do 35s without LT, you can just trim and tub until you get the travel you want.

I just hit on a couple things you might consider. There’s still cam tabs, spindle gussets, lockers (why not if regearing), compressor, washer tank relocation, winch, you get the idea.

I wouldn’t talk anyone out of larger tires, just go in with your homework done!


Welcome and Cheers!
Mike

 

You actually prompted me to revisit Jeep's website. You can only get the 35" tires with the 2.0 4cyl turbo. Booooo. Also $15k more than a 4Runner ORP. And it's a jeep. The 5th gen platform with the 4.0 is a tried and true system that is reliable and built to last. And this may be a small silly thing but the auto start/stop on any car drives me insane. I really wish that never came into existence. Was one of the straws on the camel's back when it came down to choosing the 4Runner.

 

Great advice and I think you're the first to comment who actually runs 35's (no offense to anyone if I'm wrong). Gas mileage doesn't matter to me. And I'll probably hold off on all the heavy armor and bumpers and winches and what not for a while. Couple questions for you. How many miles have you put on the 35's? Ultimately time is the test. And have you noticed a drastic difference in off-road capability with the 35's as opposed to smaller tires? Or is it just a big hassle getting them to fit for no other reason than looks? Have you achieved no rubbing even under articulation off-road? I haven't talked to a single person who has gone to 35's and COMPLETELY eliminated all rubbing. Since you have long travel, I guess its not really comparing apples to apples to my planned setup anyway.

 

Looks to me that if you select the Rubicon “25R Customer Preferred Package” you can get 35’s with a 3.6 liter V6. Regarding the auto stop-start: you can get a plug and play dongle that remembers the state of the button after you turn off the vehicle, so you only have to do it once. The Wrangler costs more than a 4Runner, but I bet after you’ve priced out all the mods you’d need to do to get the 4Runner to mirror the Wrangler’s capabilities the price would be pretty close.

I asked before what your purpose was because you seem to be all over the place. Maybe you’re not communicating well. Above you say “I also want to be able to face any mid-level obstacle that stands in my way (but also not going to go out of my way to take the more challenging route)” and then you say “… I'm that one guy who is pushing it to the limit…” so you’re going to push it to the limit on the bypass? You say that 265’s are ”pretty useless for your purpose” and then admit that the 265’s you’re basing your opinion on are street tires. You say you don’t care about looks, but that 265’s look comically too small.