Idle Timeout Surprise

Hi - Jeannie and I eat dinner the car which takes usually about 45 - 50 minutes. Cook time plus consumption. The car idles during this process for heat now in winter. Sometimes it's 5F outside. A week ago we got delayed on prep for some reason. Suddenly the entire car shut down and went dark. A bit unsettling to say the least. I learned later an idling car times out at 1 hour. It starts right back up again. Does anyone know if this can be defeated or the time extended? Another issue with this is if we get stuck up in the mountains and need to sleep in the car overnight. Not planning on that but....... Having it shut down hourly would be annoying. Just curious if anyone else has encountered this. Old school mentality here I guess, with mild discomfort having a car do things (like shutting off) which you didn't ask for. Thanks.

 

Never heard of that.

 

Might be new in the 2023 models but I confirmed this with the trip timer. Right on 1:00 it shuts down.

 

Not sure I understand your post, but I was taught that extended idling is not good for engines.

 

It's pretty simple. You park (P) the car and it's idling. A timer is set at zero. When that timer reaches 1 hour and the car hasn't moved, it automatically shuts itself off. I've heard about extended engine idling being bad. The XTerra's 4.0L V6 lived this life for 7 years and 210k miles and never had any engine problems. Different car and different engine perhaps. But this is how we use the car so we'll see what happens. Otherwise our cars get driven like baby carriages which is why they last long with few problems. Regular maintenance is also performed like oil every 5k. As for idling, when we're done eating the car drives at highway speeds for 15 to 30 minutes depending on how far out we are.

Any details on why idling an engine is bad? I know doing this and leaving condensation in the exhaust system is bad. This isn't the case given the ride home and everything gets hot.

 

My 2020 does not shut down at an hour. Like you mine idles for extended periods mostly in the heat of the summer. I have seen a slight increase in oil contamination with fuel as seen on my annual oil analysis. I have been told it is from extended idling. I bet if you place the car in neutral with the parking brake on that It will not turn off but, I'm guessing.

 

Keyless start thing. I think neutral defeats it.

 

Thanks. Interesting and easy to test. Me thinks this a something on the newer models to conform to some safety regs or who knows what. Years ago the government climbed into our toilet bowl tanks with 1.6 GPF. No telling where they'll show up. The car has 700 miles on it so it's pretty fresh. Idling is part of our usage habits. When it's 5F out, we'll warm up the car for 20 minutes. We'll run the A/C too when it gets hot but that's some months off yet. My current struggle is with the audio player. More experimentation required and a post on this later. Safe travels to one and all.

 

I seem to remember reading that the auto shutoff has to do with the possibility that the car could be left running in an attached garage and if left too long then the exhaust could asphyxiate everyone in the house.

 

It's better than the new Chevy & gmc pickups. Had a rental Silverado and it would only idle 15 minutes. Real handy when it's iced up and below zero.

 

I’m still trying to wrap my head around the need to idle for over an hour? That’s a long time.

 

I'm thinking climate control. I'd have lunch in my truck but I was starting on hot days for AC so I stopped and just sit at my desk.

 

As for safety and idiots, trying to pad the world from them just evolves a better idiot. I've been around machinery all my life and safety is #1. Stop, think then think again about what you're doing before you do it or make changes in something. It's personal responsibility. I can't imagine someone exiting a car in the garage and leaving it running. But I'm sure it happens. Some young girls a couple of years ago parked on one of our bench cut roads through the mountains. Exiting the vehicle with it in D or N. So it rolled over the edge and down 100' into the drink. BIG problem for recovery but no one got hurt. I'm showing my age with taking personal responsibility for safety I guess.

My neighbor's Ford truck times out in 20 minute when idling. He's fine with that feature. It would drive us crazy! Jeannie and I enjoy dinners in the car which means extended idling. Never gave this any thought until the 4Runner arrived. Our feeding cycle is usually about 50 minutes so the 1 hour timeout isn't a problem. The car went dark once when we got delayed because the grill blew out and we lost 10 minutes. Another uncommon situation is when there is a helicopter rescue and CDOT shuts the road down. We sat for 1:30 once when this happened. You can leave P and bump the car in D or R and I'd imagine the timeout will reset. One gentleman suggested N and the parking brake which could work. Alpine driving has unpredictable moments and I prefer to makes the idle time calls not rely on some computer that's programmed for idiots.


We just missed this small avalanche. 550 just N or Ouray, CO.


This shut down 550 for 3 months. Bad winter 2018-2019.


145 outside Telluride, CO. Lots of ground water loosening soil.

You get the point in that one can get trapped for extended periods and need to remain in the car with climate control operational. We also keep the gas tank reasonably full. These situations are uncommon but do happen. The biggest dangers are other driver's lack of good judgement.


There's at least one on every trip!

 

Good points and excellent pictures.

 

I totally agree.

 

Thanks. I hope a few caught the humor. We're all snowed in as of late with at least 5' in the mountains. It's been a light winter here so far. A few of the roads could be managed with 4 wheel chains but I'm beyond that level of adventure. If something goes bad and you need a rescue, it might not happen until Spring. We do have good towering services here but a recovery usually starts at around $1,500 for easy conditions like a dry ground tow out. Back on the idle point and other computer decisions, I think it's best that people connect with safety and make it habitual. The 4Runner has an auto dim feature on the headlights. I don't use it because I want to pay attention to oncoming traffic and make the call myself on headlights. The argument is we all forget things as humans. Reminders of safety devices have some value in that regard. Like the oops beep telling you to turn the headlights off. At times it rains, headlights are turned on then the sun comes out. You forget about your headlights. Seat beat alarms are annoying, however. I've never forgotten to strap in. Sometimes Jeannie needs to take a coat off or reach in the back seat while I'm driving. The seat belt needs to come off which sets off all the alarms. It's annoying.

Cars have good safety features now and I support that. Some years back seat belts (w/shoulder straps) saved our lives in a serious accident. Wearing one has become a habit. Last stat I read was 90% of all accidents were caused by driver error(s). This suggests driver education and training could help all of us get to our destinations safely. I also wonder if safety features lull drivers into a false sense of security? When I drive I think about any accident could mean fatalities. Including yours. It keeps one's attention on the road at all times where it should be. Where the lines are drawn with what drivers need and where the car's automation takes over is complex. A forced idle timeout crosses my line. Fine to include it but allow an owner to disable it for personal reasons.

Another hassle I had with the XTerra was the throttle getting killing by breathing on the brake pedal. I drive with two feet and have all my life with brake and throttle timed as I need it. On several occasions, the car would die when making a left turn (left foot touching the brake pedal). A safety feature gone bad. I had the dealer adjust this which fixed the problem. Some ECU expert had to fly in to deal with this but it got resolved. I've had no such issues with the 4Runner. At 60 MPH you're traveling 88'/S. Which is 8.8' every 100mS. Deer are really bad on our main road which has a 60 MPH speed limit. In known bad spots I keep my foot right over the brake pedal and thumb on the horn. This quick response has saved hitting deer many times sometimes by just a few feet. It's a relatively stupid animal that will run across the road, turn around then run back in front of your car. They will run away from loud noises, however. So quick braking and a horn blast helps avoid nailing one of them. I've hit 11 or 12 in my career. 8/9 in the van and 3 in the XTerra, none have been serious. The last 18 MPH deer tap in the XTerra was $1,500 and a rental car for 2 weeks. Deer litter the shoulders here during mating season. I've never seen elk, moose, bear, mountain lions or small cats as roadkill. Travel safely.


Several drivers were killed hit these giants! Bad season on I80 between SLC, UT and Parleys Summit.

 

When I was doing winter testing we’d do oil dilution tests where it was cold weather, slow speed, light load, short trips. The same drive cycle over and over with a long break in between while monitoring the oil level unless it gave a warning light to reduce the oil level. Then do a hour of continuous hard abusive driving to to get everything nice and toasty hit so the fuel would evaporate from the oil. Then start it over again, repeat repeat repeat until a tear down checking for internal wear. It was terrible for the engines.

 

Thanks for the information. I never engage in hard abusive driving. Engine wear and what factors contribute to it are complex. A couple of basic things that will help an engine are 5k oil changes using full synthetic oil and minimizing mechanical stress to just that required to get you safely from point A to B. I see people in town that jack rabbit start from a red light only to end up at the next red light 1/4 mile down the road. I can't imagine a lifetime of this driving helps an engine or drive train. My Ford Ecoline E250 van (1998) has 325k miles on it. It runs fine and has always been well cared for, used lightly and driven gently. The Xterra had 210K when it was trading in. No engine problems or excessive wear which would have shown up as consumed oil between changes. As mentioned, that car was always driven like a baby carriage. Mobil 1 full synthetic every 5K w/filter. Always premium fuel which might not mean much beyond a feel good moment. As for the 4Runner, it has a 4.0L engine like the XTerra but is ~ 1,500 Lbs heavier. I'm years out before I can make any calls on how the drive train will hold up. We keep vehicles for a long time. They are expensive so we take good care of them with service and gentle driving patterns. When traveling off road, we also run easily. I haven't made friends with certain aspects of the 4Runner yet. But to be fair, I need more seat time to transition from the XTerra's basic drive train to something heavier, larger and more complex. The XTerra & FJ were discontinued in 2015 which was disappointing. The 4Runner was really the only option to replicate what we grew comfortable with on the XTerra. That car is very popular out here in SW Colorado. All the owners I've spoken with have been happy with that car. I hope we say the same after 100K miles and beyond. As for extended idling, that's part of how we enjoy the car. We'll see what happens.

 

The fuel in the oil is more damaging than high load operation. Fuel is a solvent which means it will wash away/displace lubricants.

 

I agree, extended idling is less than ideal. However, it is better than heat illness or in the other gentleman's case freezing. For reference, here is a snip from my latest oil analysis which still seems to be within spec but less than ideal.

 

It's possible that leaving the driver's seat belt buckled will defeat the auto off. My Civic had a similar timer (20 min though) and if you left the seat belt buckled it would not shut down.

And yes the reason is fear of leaving the car running in an attached garage; it's easier to do when you have a push button ignition since if you are mildly distracted when parking you could leave it running and not really process that since the keys are still in your pocket and you wouldn't get to your door and not have them as you might with a keyed ignition left running. Or something...

 

That's interesting about the seat belt. Didn't think about that. Very easy to test this out and an easy workaround if it defeats the idle timeout. My neighbor has a 2019 4Runner same trim line as ours. He gets periodic oil analysis done for $40 as I recall. I'm going to do a break in oil change at 1K then another one at 5K. At the end of the first full 5K interval, I'll get an oil analysis done to see how our idling affects the oil. Some months out for that but concerns are duly noted. I'm not knowledgeable enough on this issue to debate the point. But do accept its premise as needing further investigation. I'm assuming one oil change interval which includes long idling periods will show up in an analysis. If the theory is correct, oil/fuel dilution should be detected beyond what's considered customary for driving patterns excluding long idling. I doubt many drivers use the car as we do with nightly dinners and long idles. I like the freedom and choices to safely enjoy a vehicle tailored around personal preferences.

My first car was a 1960 Oldsmobile (Dynamic 88) with the speedometer that changed colors. 50 years ago Jeannie and I would go to Roy Rogers and get their roast beef w/cheese sandwiches and eat in the car. Yea we dumped a few large cokes in the car too. So this has been somewhat of a long standing tradition which (thankfully) we still enjoy now. When the virus hit and all our restaurants closed it had no effect on us. Glad all of them are back open now and doing well. That for all the people that enjoy dining out.

PS: Thanks for the report. Interesting and comprehensive.

 

Bringing this zombie back. I recently purchased the 2021 off-road premium. I make cross country treks periodically, and sometimes just stop at a truck stop to sleep in my vehicle for 4 or 5 hours. It's now winter so it's nice to keep the engine idling to keep the temperature comfortable inside. Two previous jeeps and a Ford Raptor and they would both idle all night if you wanted to when started with the push button. Of course if you do remote start then they only run for 10 or 15 minutes. But mine, disappointingly, doesn't have that option. So I started my vehicle up, curled up in the back on my air mattress and woke up a little while later freezing and realize my engine shut off. Pain in the butt to crawl out and come up to the front to restart it. Went back to sleep and then woke up cold again. Had anybody tried the seatbelt suggestion to see if that works to cut off the time out? This is a frustrating feature that I haven't had in other vehicles.

 

We're going out tonight and I'll check if the seat belt trick works. As mentioned, our car shuts down in a hour which is a PITA. The rumor is this idle limit is to prevent being overcome with exhaust fumes if someone pulls into the garage and forgets to shut it off. I do know that sitting in the driver's seat doesn't do anything. We always unbuckle the seat belts, however. Easy enough to buckle them behind us. More later.

Best - Scott

 

You can change the gear and timer restarts

 

I'm another that keeps the 4R running when parked. When I was driving between MT. & SoCal., in the dead of winter or the heat of the summer, climate control was my friend. But the thing I did was make an adjustable rod with a fixed foot on one end and the other end had a foot with a thumb screw to set the idle to 900~1,000 rpm. This was done for 3 reasons.
1, To keep the oil pressure up a bit.
2, To reduce A/C compressor failure and draw a little more air through the grill/radiator.
3, To help keep the alternator on the charging side of things.

Side note. I used to work with a former CHP mechanic, (retired) turned civilian auto mechanic. He retired (because of age and years of service) when patrol & pursuit units went to "drive by wire" throttles. He used to fab brackets to mount push type solenoids to the throttle linkages to bump up the idle a bit when the vehicles sat for hours sometimes in the heat or cold. Gotta be comfy when doing those reports.

Also when I stopped to rest/snooze, I was stretched out on the passenger seat. No steering wheel or pedals to get in the way.
If I was at a Rest Area/Truck Stop, and a driver with a refer or pre-emissions diesel parked next to me, I'd move to another spot because they needed their rest more than I did. I have a strong dislike for half-burnt diesel fumes.
Ford V8 power jokes are some of the worst.

 

I have confirmed that bumping the transmission will reset the idle timeout. So you get another 1 hour out of that. This won't work for some drivers. I don't like some "safety" features on the new cars. The idle timeout is one of several I could do without. A simple solution would be to allow a driver to disable this at their own peril. The car could reset this back to 1 hour when started. Everyone is thus happy.

 

I think it's wild that you feel the need to idle for hours on end in single digit temperatures. What would you do if you were somewhere that actually got cold?

 

I did the buckle the seat belt test last night. It didn't work as the car shut off after 1 hour. I'd imagine there are aftermarket scanners that can program the PCM to deal with this. Nobody is going to give details given liability concerns. As mentioned, Toyota could have allowed this timer to be defeated for one start cycle when parked. Once the car is moved or turned off this would reset. This would allow those who need extended idle that option. I don't know if parking the vehicle in 4LO would change anything. It's designed to go into remote places and there are those situations you might need to keep the engine running for extended periods. Travel safely, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to one and all.

 

I'd try leaving it in neutral with the parking brake on. That beats the 15-minute timer on the accessory.