Ecgs bushing didn't work

I just bought a 2021 4runner trd orp and the dealership put a 3" toytec bilstein lift on it after It was driving all over the road I convinced them to put uca's on it because the caster was way out and couldn't be aligned. Shortly after that I noticed the humming/vibration coming from the diff so not wanting to deal with them again I put the ecgs bushing in and it didn't fix it and it's getting worse I have 1500 miles on this thing and it's been a nightmare sense I bought it. do I need a new diff possibly or could it be something else ?
thanks for your time

 

Does it have the classic symptom of the bearing noise going away when you put it in 4H?

Wow. You didn't waste any time before throwing a 3" lift on it...

I wish I had more for you...

 

Yes it does.. and the dealership did the lift its brand new it had 6 miles in it when I bought it

 

If the bushing didn't fix whatever issue you are experiencing, then the needle bearing wasn't your problem.

If you are confident that the needle bearing is the issue, then the dealer didn't install the bushing.

 

watching.

Who installed the bushing?

Sorry to hear about this. 1" lift going on my 2020 next weekend.. hope I don't have to deal with this ish!

 

Says he did.

 

Yeah I got that..... I work at a body shop and our toyota certified mechanic installed the ecgs bushing the only reason I posted on here was to get a second opinion from someone who may have already dealt with this so I have more knowledge or information maybe even a tsb before I go deal with the stealership again. It had all the symptoms of the needle bearing down to the no more noise/vibration in 4h so that's why I replaced it obviously because it still has the same symptoms it was not the needle barring I'm just going to have our mechanic look drive it and go with me to the stealership

 

Did you (they?) put in a diff drop too? If so, I'd recommend to try removing it and then see if issue persists. While the diff drop slightly improves CV angles, it does so while slightly dis-improving the pinion angle... and while somewhat unlikely, it is plausible that it could cause some vibes, and that those vibes could potentially reduce when under load (put in 4wd).

Other thoughts - assume you haven't seen any diff fluid leaks, or anything else like torn CV boot or slung grease? Vibes can be a PITA to hunt down sometimes

 

Thank you for the information the dealership did install the diff drop with the lift kit and I also wondered about that because everyone raves about the bushing conversion i'll have my shop mechanic remove the diff drop and see what happens. I'm more then capable of doing it myself but I figured for sake of argument having our toyota certified mechanic do the work they couldn't have much to say about it. apparently they have lifted 13 4runners in the last 3 months all with issues mainly caster/alignment ect.. toyota ended up reimbursing me and installing some JBA uca's to fix that problem but it took 3 different alignment shops to give me alignment specs all out of whack and toyota not being able to align it for that to happen because lord knows they are perfect

 

If the dealer installed the lift I would’ve let them figure it out before I touched the diff. Now that it’s tampered, the warranty could be possible voided but I’d check with your dealer first. If the dealer has done all the work, I don’t see why they can’t make an effort to fix it.

 

Good luck, and please let us know of the outcome.

3" lifts are the Devil!

j/k

These stories are why I'll probably take my 4Runner to the dealer if I ever have the grind.. boy I really hope I don't have to do that! I hate going to the dealerships.

 

I think I have the needle bearing issue on my 4R ORP. Only 12k miles on it and I’m experiencing the low hum, deceleration Resistance/drag and it only cropped up after the recent heavy snow and having to shift between 2H and 4H more than the vehicle had ever experienced prior. Taking mine into the dealership on Friday. I had a 3rd party shop put on my icon stage 1 lift so I’m hoping that won’t be a a reason they won’t work on it..

 

Please keep us updated!

 

Let’s assume for the sake of argument the new ecgs bearing was installed. It’s still making sounds...could it be the surface of the CV axle (that mates with the bearing) has been compromised? Maybe the cv axle is no longer smooth?

 

1500 total miles on the truck. Seriously doubt that.

People have driven tens of thousands of miles on bad needle bearings and have not had this occur.

 

So i took it to the dealership and it was the diff drop causing the problem with the pinion gear for the drive shaft. it also puts the diff at a forward angle so all the gear oil runs to the front of the diff and the pinion gear runs dry. The tech I delt with has the same 4runner as I do. he was really cool to deal with. He did a ride along with me so I could show him the sound and he was pretty straight forward with me he said he has been telling the sales staff to stop doing this to the vehicles but they wouldn't listen and was just waiting for them to start coming back with problems he gave me his personal phone number and said I could just deal with him from now on and he will take care of whatever I need or have issues with because he was the head technician for the dealership. So they ordered me a new diff just in case of damage and took the drop out and that solved the vibration.

 

@kbp810 on the money.

Good to hear! What a godsend to find that tech, there. Totally jealous over here lol.

This further reinforces my decision to only lift 1". Hate to deal with these associated issues. But yes, I understand that some do not mind.

From the little I've read, I don't think all diff-drops are created equal. I wonder if they all could cause this on a 5th Gen 4Runner? Do they all tilt the diff?

 

You nailed it!!! Thanks for that information man...

 

Yeah they just drop the front of the diff with two spacers... this explains it pretty well....

"Over the past year, there have been documented front diff failures. All of them with Diff drops.


Coincidence or is it that those who wheel with diff drops, wheel harder than those without.


Here is a fact.

The diff drop is not a diff drop, it's a diff droop. Lowering the front of the diff only lowers the the half shafts 3/8 of an inch.

Other facts. The front diff is oiled using a splash system, with oil level sitting right at the bottom of the rear pinion bearing.

1 When your lower your front diff, the rear pinion bearing is running dry.

2 When you check or change your diff oil. The Oil fill is sitting lower than stock and you are actually putting in less oil than the factory specs.

3 The drive line angles for the front drive shaft is altered. Once the ujoint angles get out of phase with each other, the pinion will speed up and slow down with rotation of the drive shaft.



The rear driveshaft has a double cardan joint (constant velocity) so the rear pinion angle is not as critical.

Now for opinions

Anytime that lift is done and changes the regular working angle of the cv boots, something will happen. Stretching and articulation of 15 year old rubber will do something.

If you can prevent the bellows of the boot from touching or rubbing on them selves, you can improve the life of the boot. Google "streching 4runner Boots".

Getting tighter clamps can help with grease leakage.



My Opinion. Lowering 3/8 of an inch not worth the loss of the front diff.

There has been about 4 front diff failures throughout the last year and every single one of the had a diff drop."

 

Don't be too confident on a 1" lift keeping you from having the issue.

Mine, as well as others, have had the issue pre-lift while at factory height.

 

I’ve noticed this on mine and I have a 18 ORP with a 3” Toytec lift with a dif drop. I don’t notice and whine or other noise just the drag. Do I have a potential dif failure coming? Should I ditch the drop?

 

Based on everyone’s responses, this seems to be a common issue especially when lifting the vehicle. I’m surprised there aren’t more threads about it. Do people just ignore the issue and continue driving with the bad needle bearing? Maybe they don’t notice? To me it is super noticeable and really annoying. I’ll keep everyone updated with what my dealership says when I take mine in this week.

 

I know that I may still have the differential bearing issue, but I surely won't have any issues from a differential drop (or, more appropriately I guess, "tilt") since I won't need one with a 1" lift. I also don't need aftermarket UCA's, so I don't need to worry about greasing additional bushings, pre-mature failure, etc. ... or as much about my CV joints because my angles will be better with a smaller lift. Of course, factory height is the most reliable... but there are always points where a little more lift takes a lot more work and/or decreases reliability to a greater extent.

 

This is entirely antidotal, but most, if not all, of the threads I’ve read regarding this issue on this forum and on another 4R forum seem to be affecting the ‘20-‘21 MY. Again, I haven’t done in-depth research on the issue, just a simple observation and in no way indicative of how wide the problem is or isn’t. Even more concerning is some of these needle bearings are going out on stock 4Rs that haven’t even been off the dealer lot very long. Toyota needs to get its act together and fast.

 

This has been a well documented issue since like 2005. Definitely not only a '20- '21 problem.

Tacomas, FJ's, 4Runners.

 

16 years over multiple platforms and Toyota refuses to address the issue? What does Toyota have to benefit from with replacing parts under warranty versus a simple redesign or use of the ecgs bushing?

 

You've just asked the million dollar question.

Another million dollar question is why can't they use frames that don't have frequent rust issues.


"Toyota says this is normal"...lol

 

Ive mentioned elsewhere on this site, but my 21 started making this sound with about 100miles on the odo. Im still waiting to taken it in until it starts to do it consistently. Warmer weather has not made any change. Just today it made more sound than usual, to where I felt the vibes slightly. I put it in 4wd, and it went away. After putting it back in 2wd, it stayed quiet for the rest of ride. I’ll probably be taking it in soon.

The thing that gets me is why Toyota has not changed the part? Is there a good reason they thought it was good to oversize the bearing? Is there a reason they chose a needle bearing instead of plain? Does toyota know something we or escg dont? Or is it as simple as toyota being stubborn?

 

I have a question, For those who have a proper suspension lift meaning (taller springs/struts/shocks); are your CV angles effected?

Are diff drops just done with spacer lifts?

If legit suspension lifts do not use diff drops, I'm having trouble understanding how the CV angles are unaffected.

Thanks

 

To answer part of your question. I had a ReadyLift spacer lift and now have a 3” Toytec Boss lift. Both used Diff Drops.