Constant Brake “warping”

So I’ve had my 2013 limited for about 3.5 years now and I’ve had to replace the rotors 5 times for “warping” (I know the rotors don’t warp and it’s just deviation in thickness) but 3 of the times have been in the last year. Before last year I even switched to high heat capacity rotors and brake pads, and then just in the last month the wobble when I press my brakes is miraculously back. I do not drive my car more than 5 miles from my house and never really on the interstate so the reasoning of braking too hard and heat causing the problem doesn’t sit right with me, also considering I’ve never had this problem with any other vehicle. The calipers have not been changed, I’m thinking maybe I should swap them out? Anyone have any other thoughts or ideas? All of this is on stock tires also.

 

Are you "bedding" the brakes when you replace them? I have a S-10 with a similar prob., after resurfacing the rotors and a proper "bedding" they don't pulse anymore. I forgot to add: this was 2yrs ago.

 

Sounds like a caliper (or both) is not squeezing/ releasing fully causing said issue. More common with slider style calipers vise double/ multi piston ones.. Are the pads wearing evenly inboard and outboard/ front to back of the same pad?

 

Are the wheels put on with a torque wrench. Over tighten lug nuts will distort the brake rotors. Impact tools will over tighten the lug nuts.

 

yup. while not overly common, over tightening lug nuts can cause rotor warpage.

i remember i had to replace the calipers on my 2001. It sat a lot with the first owner (only 17,000 miles over first 5 years).

 

This sounds like what was mentioned......a caliper isn't right, wheels overtight, wheel corrosion on the inside of the rim or on the hub behind the rotor.
You have a problem that is unique. I did all four corners this past summer, cleaned everything, torque wrench on every bolt and nut........zero issues.

 

Firestone is doing the brakes for warranty/convenience reasons so I’m almost positive they aren’t bending anything. Will be replacing calipers next month to see if that helps, thanks gentlemen

 

I think this may be your issue......

 

if they're using an impact wrench they could be over-tightening. I always ask my mechanic to hand-tighten my lugs.

if i go to a tire place and the kids use the impact wrench, i immediately loosen when I get home and re-torque with my torque wrench.

 

I will be doing this immediately when I get the truck back then

 

I have never heard of this happening. Even after years of mountain driving my rotors were never warped.

Sounds like your shop doesn’t know what they’re doing, I would probably just replace everything with Toyota OEM at a good independent mechanic.

Rotors are cheap, I wouldn’t bother with machining them.

 

That's why I only go to america's tires. Every place I've been too, they torque the lugs down. Plus you can actually watch and see them do it as their bay's are in plane view.

 

I’ve been to 3 different shops in my area and every time this happens. At this point it has got to be the calipers right? They are the only component I haven’t changed from the whole brake assembly.

 

Are the shops lubricating the guide pins properly? I have an 04 4runner which are notorious for caliper seizing. Each time I do a brake job, I make sure to wipe clean all the old previous grease on the sliding pins, bolts etc and re-lubricate before assembly. Even if the grease still looks good, I remove it. I use mission automotive silicone paste on the sliding pins and I've not replaced the calipers and have no brake issues at all. Do not use grease, if it gets wet and picks up dirt, it turns into like thick paste which prevents the calipers from sliding freely when the pedal is depressed.

 

Agree with all the suggestions based on troubleshooting the issue years ago: resurface the rotors, bed the pads, follow proper torquing procedures (floating rotors - unless you progressively tighten them they could be slightly askew), lubricated guide pins. I've never had a caliper problem.

Maybe one way to look at it - if you're having "warping" (which is really just a friction imbalance) on only one wheel, it could be a caliper. If you're having it consistently on both front wheels, it may be more likely a process/installer issue. Good luck.

 

No the rotor's thickness is not deviating. It is out of round or otherwise has excessive runout. If you machine said rotor you can then create a thickness variation upon which the rotor will re-warp even faster even it is still above min. thickness. Cheap aftermarket rotors are notorious for not being straight right out of the box aka "made in China". As in previous posts ensure proper wheel torque and that caliper slides and pistons aren't hanging/seizing up. Stick with premium parts. Living in a salt belt demands annual brake maintenance to keep everything loose and moving. If all is good towing or hard braking is the usual cause.

 

I would caution against replacing your calipers just yet. Yes, a sticking / frozen caliper can cause the symptoms you're mentioning, but let's check a few other less expensive causes before you spend big bucks. (You might also find out that cheap rebuilt calipers are worse than what you have now.)

Generally speaking, the main thing that leads to pulsating brakes is excessive heat. The question is, where does that heat come from? Do you left foot brake as some folks do? If so, do you rest your left foot on the brake pedal? This will cause excessive heat to build up. I've seen brand new brakes smoked by doing this in a very short period of time - by a relative who swore he didn't do it.

Do you brake late and / or hard when you come to a stop? Some folks just brake harder than others. The harder you brake, the shorter the life of your brake components. Again, this will cause excessive heat to build up.

I'd suggest using and inexpensive temperature gun to check how much heat is building up after normal driving. (You can use the old "quickly touch a wheel" method too, but you may burn yourself.) How warm is normal? That depends on a lot of things, but under normal braking conditions, you should still be able to quickly touch a wheel which means it would be under 180 degrees or so. Your front brakes should be warmer than your rears because they do more work. Side to side on each axle should be pretty close to each other.

 

@Too Stroked

good points, but don't forget most modern brake systems are rear biased to prevent nosedive. that's why most people replace their rear pads more frequently than the fronts. of course, as you noted, braking "style" can heavily influence the wear as well.

 

Hmmm, that's a new one on me. Front brakes are still larger than rears and simple weight transfer says you're going to shift more weight to the fronts during braking. I could buy "more rear biased" maybe. I'll have to check with my son who's a Lexus Certified Service Technician. Interesting thought though.

 

i thought it was common knowledge amongst auto enthusiasts. i've been talking with others about it for quite some time on other auto forums.

of course, i don't know exactly when the system begins to engage the fronts, as there are probably many factors involved. in my vehicles, we're always replacing the rear pads long before ever replacing the fronts.

edit- i suppose i could be wrong, but i'm sure i've read about this in multiple locations. its not just that the rear pads/rotors are smaller/thinner therefore seeing faster wear....?

of course, the 4Runner's squishy suspension probably exacerbates nose-dive anyway.

 

This is my first Toyota in about 8 years. But both my Mazda and Infiniti utilized this technology.

"Typically, the front end carries more weight and EBD distributes less braking pressure to the rear brakes so the rear brakes do not lock up and cause a skid.[3] In some systems, EBD distributes more braking pressure at the rear brakes during initial brake application before the effects of weight transfer become apparent."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_brakeforce_distribution

 

Other than OEM or Rebuilt front caliper are there any 5th gen Upgrade 4 or 6 piston versions that fit factory mounts?

 

6 PISTON SOS PERFORMANCE FRONT BIG BRAKE KIT fits 2005-17 TOYOTA | SOS Performance, Tundra Racing, Stoptech Big Brake Kit Rear Disc

 

That's a new one on me. Nosedive is a suspension related condition. When you brake you are transferring the weight to the front hence the nosedive. The stiffer the suspension the less the nosedive. This why front brakes are always more robust with larger rotors and pads compared to the rear as they do the majority of the work. You don't see 4 piston rear calipers on 4runners like on the front. I've never seen a proportioning valve on 4 wheel disc brakes. The front/rear bias is determined by the size of caliper bore and number of pistons front vs rear. It's much smaller on the rear so the rear brakes don't lock up causing a loss of control when the weight transfers. Front brakes normally get replaced 2:1 compared to rears for these reasons if everything is in good working order. And yes I have been a licensed auto mechanic for almost 40 yrs.

 

I've never heard of this.

 

Well, up until recently I had 7 years worth of documentation showing the rear pads on both my CX5 and QX70 wearing considerably faster than the fronts. Neither vehicle had torque vectoring or anything else I was aware of that would use/engage rear braking while driving. The CX5 did have an EPB which might have had an impact, but the QX70 had the old fashioned foot pedal style brake.

Unfortunately, I think I burned all that paperwork when I cleaned out my filing cabinet last month. When I was a forum regular, Mazdas247 had many posts on this in the CX5 section of the forum when I and many others started noticing rear pads barely lasting 30,000 miles. 30-35,000 miles was the rear life expectancy on my QX70 as well. I rarely brake hard, because I'm always keeping a safe distance from drivers in front of me.

EBD seemed like the only sensible explanation. If you have a better idea as to why I was experiencing that on all of our vehicles (including a Mazda 6 and Honda CRV as well) I'd love to hear it.

 

I did some checking with folks I trust and no, most new vehicles are not rear biased. If you've ever driven a vehicle with a proportioning valve that lets you vary the bias, you'll know exactly how bad rear bias feels. Most race cars use proportioning valves to vary the bias to account for fuel burn off and / or to allow the driver to loosen an understeering car up by shifting bias to the rear.

As for your Mazda products using a computer to vary the bias, you will note that even in the explanation you provided, they said the rear bias is only temporary until the weight transfers. Although this could lead to Mazdas eating rear brakes quicker, no vehicle I've ever owned went through rear brakes first. In fact, my daily driver 2006 Scion xB has been through 2 sets of front brake pads in 148,000 miles. The rear brake shoes are original and look like they could go another 100,000 at this rate.

 

All 4 of our most recent vehicles with 4 wheel disc brakes experience faster rear pad wear. My GF is still on her original front rotors/pads on her CRV at 93,000 miles. She's now on her 3rd set of rear pads.

I'm not imagining this.

4 separate vehicles, over 300,000 miles driven between them since 2005.

 

PS- I appreciate you folks checking your sources for me. I just don’t have any other explanation.

I have no problem conceding my “most vehicles” comment was incorrect.

I’ll definitely be curious to see how my 4Runner fares regarding brake wear.

 

I can't tell you you're wrong. I just have never seen this type of wear on any car I've ever driven. BUT, I can tell you that it appears the fronts and rears on a 5th gen 4Runner wear evenly. I did rotors and pads on all four wheels this summer and the pads appeared to all be at the same thickness. I used Advics parts to replace the OEM parts, which based on my research, were Advics from the factory. Pricey but worth it. Brakes (and tires) are not to be trifled with.