4Runner vs New EV Hummer

Just kidding

 

Chevy Avalanche EV.

 

I got to admit, I saw the commercial last night, it had me watching it. But when it was over, we decided it was just the off roading and it how much it reminded us of out west.

 

It was fairly interesting until the $112k price tag. I could buy and mod 2 ORPs and still have some money to play with.

 

Lets just be real the 4R loses hands down.

 

Or still be able to pay for the fuel.

 

For sure it's super expensive. Even the base model, without the perks like four wheel steering and height adjustable air suspension, is supposed to be 80k when it comes out a year later.

But dang does it look impressive. 1000 horses, more than 1000 lb torque, 0-60 in about 4 seconds in normal mode and 3 sec in launch mode, 35 inch tires standard, tons of ground clearance, flat and armored underbody, presumably big towing numbers, and supposedly 350 miles of range with a fast charger adding 100 miles of range in just 10 minutes.

I mean seriously, price aside, who wouldn't want this thing if fast chargers were about as plentiful as gas stations?

And over time the prices will come down. And the range, charging speed and availability of charging stations will all increase.

It's dang good evidence that we're only a handful of years away from EVs becoming no brainers for most buyers.

 

I'd take the Rivian, I like the looks better

I agree, when the infrastructure is there I'll be an electric convert...I'm impatiently waiting....

 

Agree on Rivian looks. No doubt those are gonna be impressive too. But either way I'll take the SUV version, thank you. Like having my stuff under a roof

 

When the wife saw the Rivian SUV she literally said, "I pick that one, no more discussion."

 

Tesla truck all the way at the price point that these new EV trucks are coming out at.

 

....nah keeping my 4runner as long as I can, the price of electricity will go uuuup, while gas will most likely go down supply in demand yes ....also it's hilarious how back in the 70s GM killed the electric car , and now their gung oh , the same as Volkswagen with diesel gate lmao cheers guys

 

Until it runs out of batteries.

How fast are these chargers?

20% to 100% in 5 minutes?

Sure, as long as you don't mind that it's ugly as hell.

 

What was that “crab crawl” sideways steering it does? Just all wheel steering you can control independently?

 

As I'd mentioned above, GM is saying 10 minutes to get 100 miles of range. Would be nice to get closer to gas fill up times of a few minutes per tank. But 10 minutes for 100 miles is hardly horrible. Especially when you consider the ability to charge at home whenever you're not using the car. Likewise at an increasing number of workplaces. Likewise at an increasing number of shopping plazas. So there are already opportunities to charge when you're not even with the car, doing something else you'd be doing anyway.

Because of this, many people could go months before even needing to interrupt their trips with a stop at a charging station. That's a big time saver right there.

All that said, it's not enough for me. I need to know I can charge up about as reliably as I can gas up. That I'm not more likely to run out of juice on any car trip I take than I would be to run out of gas on that same trip. I want to be able to drive 1000 miles in a day and not worry about the number and location of charging stations along the way.

So the plentitude of charging stations is still key to me. As is range.

 

It is when compared to 5 minutes for 300+ miles.

Agreed. It's not just range, or having places to charge, though. Charge times are still way too slow, and I don't know if they will ever overcome this.

I still think a new type of battery or power supply is needed.

 

Well, of course it's subjective whether 10 minutes is a "horrible" amount of time to spend to add 100 miles of range. But that view seems a bit extreme since 90% of drivers won't need to stop to charge even that much for like 90% of their use of the vehicle. (Again, they will be charging at home or at work or while shopping. And very few people have commutes that long).

Anyway, and I think we've had this discussion before so don't want to shoot a dead horse, but the problem of charging speed decreases as range increases.

As a thought experiment, imagine real world range of 1000 miles. That's actually not that far fetched, since EVS with >500 miles are already around the corner. If it took you 30-60 minutes to fill up but you only had to do it every 1,000 miles? And you could do a lot or all of it while the car sat idle at home or work or while shopping? And what about the time you spend now changing your oil?

You see my point, EV fueling may or may not ever be as fast as gas fueling, but you could still spend less time interrupting your trips than you do now. Cause you're fueling when the car is idle at home or work or while shopping. And you're not wasting time on oil changes. And perhaps, you're not even needing to fuel as often cause you get more miles out of a tank.

So the main impediment to me is the risk of running out of juice cause there's no charging station along the route you want to take on a long car trip (whether that's a casual family vacation trip or an emergency get-out-of-Dodge trip).

 

This would be sufficient for me. I drive 1400 miles in about 20-21 hours every winter. I stop for fuel, and once midway to eat and just get out of the car for a bit. I could see charging during this break.

I'm just thinking of how I use my vehicle. I realize that I am not a typical driver, so what doesn't work for me is probably sufficient for most.

 

The EV Hummer I saw, wrapped in black fabric, was pretty disappointing and did not resemble the one in the commercial. It resembled a Honda Ridgeline.

 

Ars Technica's story about the Hummer EV said if you squint it looks like a cross between an FJ Cruiser and a Porsche 914. I can actually see that! But yeah, I see Ridgeline in there too for sure. It's not a great looker IMO. Rivian better. Bollinger better still. Cybertruck's looks are too "out there" for me. Though it does seem to have some cool innovations. Just not sure why it has to have that shape!

 

I’m not sure we know exactly how it works. But does seem to be four wheel steering. Maybe with some computerized enhancements thrown in, that wouldn’t be feasible with a regular drivetrain. Perhaps a bit like the Rivian “tank turn.” In any case I suspect you select it on the computer screen and it does most of the work for you.

 

Here is the actually website for the Hummer EV. Way too expensive for my blood.https://www.gmc.com/electric-truck/hummer-ev

 

Bingo! ICE engine forever. 4Runner all the way. A Hummer EV is still a Chevy = poor quality.

A video from our Shelby friend, Speed Phenom...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEtcpT_9jiU

 

I was like

 

There’s cars and SUVs that already have it. The 4 wheel steering turns the rear axle the opposite direction at low speed tighter turning radius and at high speed it operates like the “crab walk” turning all 4 wheels the same direction while switching lanes. You don’t even notice it happening but it’s smoother and makes the vehicle feels lighter and more nimble.

 

That will never be a possibility.

Edit to expand on this. Right now for ideal home charging you need Nemo 14-50 outlet wired into a dedicated 220v 50 amp breaker, this will get you a peak charging rate of about 9.6kw. On the horribly inefficient Hummer that’s like 12ish miles per charge. The 110v plug into a standard outlet charger is like 1.5kw, totally useless.

The “fast” charging times referenced by Hummer (btw everyone talks up about the “up to 80% charge” when discussing charging speeds because you cram a shit load of energy into a depleted battery but once’s you hit 80% you need to slow the charging rate significantly) is based on a DC charger pushing 800 volts at 350kw! We won’t see homes setup for that in our lifetime for sure. But a 30 minute charge for 1000 miles of range, your talking 10 times the output. There’s zero chance that type of power ever makes it to be common place. Granted battery tech is advancing extremely fast, that just seems way to optimistic.

 

I'm not concerned with in home / around town fast charging. I need the infrastructure to make it's way to somewhere I can roadtrip with.

Until I can roadtrip a EV, this stuff isn't interesting.

But you're right about the required power to quick charge. One other factor is I've heard people say they hope solar can one day power these vehicles. That's also extremely unlikely by itself. The energy density of the UV rays the sun puts out maxxes out at something like 2kW per square meter of surface. I take that to mean if an average vehicle has 2 square meters of hood/roof/trunk surface, it could optimally sustain 4kW/hrs of power. Towing, mountains, and just driving and needing to make more than you're using to store for the nighttime would likely do these things in quickly.

No amount of graphene will overcome the limitation of the density of the sunlight. My only guess is we'd have to create a new type of panel, one that uses more of the UV spectrum, as the current tech we use only uses a limited part of it.

I think the end game for now is hydrogen + electric.

 

To be clear, I wasn't suggesting these kinds of charging rates at home. My point was that people could do a lot of their charging at home, not that it would be at those speeds. And when they had to charge on the road, 1000 mile ranges and charging speeds of 100 miles per 5 or 10 minutes may not be that far away.

I mean, it's several years away. As I've noted in numerous other places on the forum. But the advances we've already seen make it not at all farfetched.

For super fast home charging, of course you'd need a whole new infrastructure. My hunch is that we'll ultimately move to more localized energy production with less grid reliance. Just as some major factories and data centers are now doing. But that's certainly a long way off for homeowners.

 

I literally thought about you and your thread the first time I saw the commercial. I was sitting there with my wife going “son of a bi$&/, he was right.”

 

Agreed regarding the roadtrip. That's the big impediment for me too.

Agree re solar too. Neither current nor emerging tech would allow meaningful charging on the road from solar panels. There are some promising developments there, but it's not realistic to throw some solar panels on your roof and get a bunch of charge that way. It would be an adjunct, like regenerative braking is now.

That said, solar combined with battery stations at your home could be a realistic way to charge at home. Tesla is already doing this.