2016 TEP lift with KDSS.. Did not go as expected!

Hey all,

So after reading up on this for ages and finally pulling the trigger I figured I would tackle this project with minimal issues. Unfortunately that did not pan out as intended. I had no idea that my camber and alignment in general would be so atrocious after installing the lift. I did not have to disconnect KDSS on the front but I did in the rear in order to get the axle low enough to get the coils in (with compressors).

The lift is a Bilstein 6112 (front) and 5100 (rears). Basically 3/2

On my SPC UCA's I have them set to D and the upper nut is set to the middle of the slot. I did not touch the LCA's at all. I did however have a huge screw up which will cost me once I get it to the shop. I did not double check the torque setting on my wrench after my buddy had set it and he had misread the specs on the UCA bolt and it was set too high and stripped out the drivers side. Now the nut just spins on the bolt and I cannot remove it. Looks like the nut will have to be cut off. I will replace the passenger side bolt and nut as well to be safe.

Take a look at that camber.

And yep that tire is bald and yep new BFG's are waiting at the shop monday.

 

Sorry to hear about your woes, sometimes its best to have the pro's take care of things... Its gonna look great after you get it fixed from the shop and the new BFG's on. post a pic of it then

 

I had visible camber misalignment when I did my lift, but nothing like that!

But if you have adjustable UCA aligment, I’d probably try to dial that in a little better before driving it to the shop for the final alignment. My shop told me to drive it 100 miles or so to let the springs settle in before doing the final alignment. Dont know if Id want to drive that long looking like that.

Then again, your UCA is being held on by a stripped bolt. Might be taking your chances on the road. Even if it doesnt fall off, a loose UCA banging around loose might be a problem.

 

The adjustment you currently require is done by “touching the LCAs”.

 

I kept saying don't mess with KDSS use a shop with KDSS knowledge but few comment its no big deal and keep putting people in trouble.

 

KDSS is not this guys issue. Is it a pain to deal with? I can be. I just installed lift in my GX a first time dealing with KDSS was a bit of learning curve. OP just needs to address alignment issues and f’ed up bolt. Might need some KDSS spacers at that lift height as well.

 

KDSS spacers & Track bar. Fingers crossed for no KDSS lean after all that as I see lean based on the pic. I heard some shops loosen kdss valves to get the rear springs.





EDIT -
Adding the pic to clear what I was saying -

 

Yep, lean is legit.

 

I might try a different setting, or slide the nut inward to bring the camber closer to spec. I wouldn't worry about caster as much, as your alignment shop will take care of that.

It seems like lean is only an issue for those lifting too high, or if people are messing with the valves. At 2.5/1.5, mine sits level. I didn't mess with the valves. 45K lifted miles, plenty of off-roading, and no problems here.

It's not really a KDSS problem as much as an installer error. Adding spacers, if needed, and making sure the vehicle is level if you do decide to open the valve should avoid any lean.

 

I recently did a lower control arm bushing and lower ball joint replacement on my 2003 Tacoma. Although I made cam bolt marks to get everything back as close as possible, my truck looked exactly like your 'after' picture. Although the drive to the alignment shop was a bit unnerving, a good alignment took care of it. That should be the case with yours. They can probably put in a new UCA bolt also.

 

Ok so an update. First off, that carport is at a slight grade so you cannot go off the back retaining wall and fence to try and see if there is lean as it is definitely leaning on that slope.

I went ahead and pulled the front wheels off this morning and noticed that while I was set to 'D' on the ball joint that I was also incorrectly clocked 180° this causing the wheel to push out from the top. Flipping these around helped a lot in getting that crazy camber out. I also went ahead and loosened the LCA's and turned the back camber bolts facing outboard and the front camber bolts facing inboard. As for the busted UCA bolt on the drivers side. It is not flopping around the same amount of threads are showing as are on the passenger side it's just that the nut will not back off. The bolt will spin from either side so I know the bolt is not broken per-se but the threads under that nut are effed for sure.

I do have MTS and traction control lights on but no ABS. I suspect that I will need a zero point once all this other stuff is sorted. If I had busted an ABS wire I would think I would also have an ABS light on. I did not have to touch KDSS on the front except for placing a jack under the piston to get the passenger side to lower. I did not even have to pry on the passenger side LCA to get the shock assembly in. I did however have to disconnect the sway bar in the rear in order to get the axle to lower enough to get the coils in. That was simple.

So right now my main concern is getting that UCA bolt replaced and everything else should work out.

 

I was once chastised (on here)for saying the same thing.

I was not trying to be a smart ass with my previous comment, sorry, I was really busy. Don’t be alarmed, bro his is not that big a deal. Time to learn to align your truck. It is not difficult and you are far less likely to fuck up your truck doing it than what you already did. The adjustments you need to make to correct that camber angle cannot be done via the UCA adjustments alone. Look at your cam bolts and see if they are set toward the oil pan or toward the wheels/wide or narrow. Probably at least two of them are adjusted toward the center of the truck, narrowing the width. You will need to loosen the tie rods and the cam bolt nuts and make the necessary adjustments.

You need: 4 jackstands or something to which to can secure a tight line, string, a line level, tape measure, appropriate wrenches, torque wrench, a level, and to make life easier a couple sheets of thin hdpe or a couple tough plastic plates help to reduce friction with the ground if you park with the front tires on them…lets them adjust more easily and accurately

1. Flat ground
2. Plastic under front tires so they will move easily (2 plates on top of each other allows them to slide so the tires move easier)
3. Ensure tire psi is the same on all 4 corners
4. Set baseline: Set jackstands at the corners and run a tight, level line front to rear that is even with the center of the hubs and exactly the same distance from the hubs
5. Not sure you would want to return to the current specs, but as a general rule you put 2 marks on all your cam bolts and tie rods so you can return to the start point if necessary
6. Incrementally adjust bolts and tie rods to push the tires to where they need to be, square with the line front and rear, level top to bottom.
7. Torque to spec
8. Get an appointment at an alignment shop
*You must constantly re-check and maintain your base line, good to have a helper…that won’t strip out your bolts and stuff lol

It is a pain in the ass, but it is easy, and once you start turning stuff and see what each turn of the different things does you will catch on and get it at least safe enough to get it to the alignment shop. I don’t know why more people don’t do this…it is how it used to be done before we all paid somebody else to do everything for us. Alignment is part of the job of installing a lift. If you are gonna DIY lift it, learn to DIY align it, otherwise sometimes it really isn’t safe to drive to the alignment shop, as you see. You can do it. *Disclaimer: I don’t know shit about KDSS, so you might still have the ghetto lean, but alignment is alignment - you can make it roll straight

 

Anyone with a little patience can install a lift on a KDSS 4Runner. It's when you start messing with the valves, or lift too high that you get issues.

And, based on some Youtube videos, I would not trust a shop to know what they're doing in regards to KDSS.

 

I mean I have been reading about lifting KDSS 4Runners since I purchased mine in 2016. I felt fine performing the lift and it was easier than many said it would be. No shutter valves were open and the only bolts touched on KDSS were the rears. That sway bar was way too easy to re-attach on the back. Basically I had a floor jack under the bar and undid the brackets and let it go down then rushed the jack back under the piston as it lowered and jacked it back up some to support. On the flip side I let the jack lower as fast as I could and grabbed the bar and swung it back up then had the jack ready to pump and caught the bar in the piston before it had even completely lowered. Super simple of all the shit I had to do. I found the drivers side harder than the front in getting the strut in place. Jacking up that front KDSS piston (as per Kings instruction set) did wonders for getting that passenger strut in.

 

The camber looks much better! Glad you figured it out.

 

You definitely did your homework! And, that's exactly what I'm saying. A couple of Youtube videos, and reading the manufacturer's directions, and it's no problem.

The camber issue had nothing to do with KDSS, and the apparent lean looked like a result of camera angle.

Are you thinking of adding the KDSS spacers?

 

Oh yeah. I am still seeing posts where some poor chap undid his front swaybar and made life super shitty.. or fucked about with shutter valves before knowing what if any lean situation he would or would not have had.

I am thinking about some Oak Treaty spacers. I have been talking with Dr. Kdss and he is working on a piston spacer vs a bar spacer so I have been on the fence regarding them. I suspect at some point I will though if he doesn't get to the alternative. He is also working on bushing clamps to keep the center bushings in line as those OEM retainers are shit once you lift or take it off road. They just seem to vanish.

That carport is horrific for angles when it comes to photos. It slopes a bit front to back as well as left to right while the roof remains level and the back wall... also has a mind of its own.

Had I not fucked myself on the UCA bolt I would have said the install could have been seen as a success. That and the 180° ball joint fuck up was just a result of me getting distracted during the install and feeling rushed.

OH! And those damn rear shocks. Of all the places for my Bilstein shock mount washer to vanish. That Mf'er slid down the frame rail and on TOP of my fuel tank. I just snagged one of the old UCA washers and tossed it on temporarily until I could source a new one from Bilstein. Figured it is an easy change vs dropping the fuel tank for one damn washer.

 

Glad see you making some progress. Truck is looking a lot better...

 

I think you did one hell of a job overall, and especially fixing (as much as possible without pro equipment) the camber issue.

I also tackled a suspension install after watching multiple videos, but went about it in a different manner. I actually supported the front sway bar KDSS cylinder with a jack and ratcheting straps, with the weight of the truck on the wheels on the ground, then disconnected the sway bar on both LCAs to change out my front coils/shocks. I had no issues reconnecting my front sway bar ends to the LCAs once done, again with the weight of the vehicle on the wheels. As you may have noticed, anytime KDSS and lift are mentioned in the same sentence on here, the naysayers come out of hiding to blame every issue on the fact that you're trying to lift a KDSS-equipped vehicle, which should NEVER be done under ANY circumstances - KDSS is the devil. You shouldn't have have even considered buying a 4R with that evil technology.

Anyway, congratulations on your install, despite warnings that you will ruin your truck, and happy wheeling once you get your alignment dialed in.

 

4runner is back from the shop with new tires, new UCA bolts and nuts, new TPMS sensors and alignment. I do not have alignment specs as they could not print them out so I will be getting a second check at another alignment shop to see where we stand. It drives well and the only rubbing I had was on the front mud flaps. I suspect this will change with my 1" bora spacers. I still need to sort out my rear panhard and toss some new bumps stops on.