4Runner v Land Cruiser Fuel Grade

Don't let facts get in the way of your new car euphoria.

 

The times I looked at were based on testing.

And, I wouldn't call 8.1 seconds "quite a bit slower" than 7.7 seconds. Slower, yes. But, other sources have them much closer.

 

Okay that's fine if you don't care.

But a brand spanking new Land Cruiser getting beat by a vehicle with a drivetrain that goes back to 2010 by almost half a second? Maybe there is a marketing phrase you can use to describe that, I can't think of a good one.

 

I never said that I don't care. I just said that it's not a very significant difference. And that other sources have them neck and neck, so I won't make up my mind up just based off of one YouTube channel.

Also, I would be more interested in how it does towing than how it does at the track, personally.

My 2003 V8 4Runner was also slower than my 5th gen. And, I would trade my 1GR for another 2uz in a heartbeat if it were an option (and preferably with exhaust manifolds that don't crack).

 

Turdo.

 

But what about all that torque and HP?
Is it all just a bunch of marketing BS?

 

So all of 5 people? The J200 is a sales failure.

 

You are entitled to your opinions. I will leave it at that.

 

Price the new LC 250 like how Toyota priced the 200 series in the US, adjusted for inflation, starting at 100920 dollars, and see how well it does here.

The pricing was Toyota's decision to go up market and squeeze the US buyers. Crazy how that worked out.

 

Because it was such a niche vehicle at that price point in the US for a “Toyota”.

it’s not because sales were low that it means it’s inferior.

I guess the LFA is a failure as well then? Same for the FJ cruiser if we look at sales number.
Even the 4Runner before 2016! Why did Toyota keep making the 5th gen with such low sale numbers. Everyone here should’ve bought a RAV4 since it was selling so well.

I think I don’t need to keep going for how irrelevant sale numbers are to determine the quality of a vehicle…

 

Same. 300 is pathetic.

 

I have watched videos of taste testers, and hear about the sour taste they get from tasting the new LC. Here try this video, time stamped for perfection:

https://youtu.be/zlhSgUh_6VY?t=993

 

:cough:
the ermmmmm 1GR-FE 4.0 v6 was released back in 2003 and the current model shares the same trans (a750 family) and driveline. The only major difference from the 2003 4runner to the 2024 4runner in driveline, suspension, engine and transmission was the engine got dual VVTi and the oil filter being relocated lower on the engine. Other than that when you pull the body off they are practically identical.

 

To be fair, the FJC was a failure.

 

Some would count the 2009 change as a major revision since dual VVTi did raise horse power and torque by not insignificant amount.

 

It was made until Dec 2022 for other markets so clearly there was something wrong with Toyota's marketing strategy for the US since it was worth their time to make it for another 8 years after stopping selling it here in NA.

If you recall when it was available, Toyota was not shipping them as quickly as people wanted and there was a perpetual wait list, similar to how GR Corolla's inventory situation is today. The failure is a Supply side issue. If they sold the FJ in 2021 here it would have been a massive hit.

 

Markets vary widely worldwide and being discontinued in North America but not the Middle East isn't purely a marketing problem. It could just be consumer tastes (off-road SUV's wouldn't find a resurgence until years later after the FJC and Xterra already left the market), safety standards, subpar profits per unit, just wanting to use factory capacity for something else, etc.

I'm about to talk about GM's late-00's U-body minivan (think the Uplander) - but just because the Buick GL8 kept being sold in China until 2016 after US sales stopped in 2008 doesn't mean it's platform mates could have been magically marketed into success here in the US for several more years.

 

The so called "sales failure" was immediately after the 2008-2009 financial crisis, when all car sales plummeted.

But let's say we ignore the macro economics, as everyone knows, Toyota does not allow people to order and you have to scramble to get dealers to get allocation, and in the years after 2008 Toyota consistently "sold" meaning shipped around 14k a year of FJ to the US. How crazy is that they did not manage to sell any more as the car market recovered? The FJ crash rating was decent,

https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/toyota/fj-cruiser-4-door-suv/2014

its drivetrain was identical to the 4Runner parts depending on trim and transmission choice.

I stand by my statement that the ostensible failures of niche Toyotas like the J200, FJ, GR Corolla, etc are largely supply side constrained.

 

The FJC was only a failure in the U.S. market. If you look in the Asia-Pacific, India, Middle-Eastern and African markets you will see the FJ being sold and offered in many trim levels.


https://www.toyota.ae/en/new-cars/lc70-hardtop/

 

Actually numbers do care about feel. I used to be responsible for Performance Feel at an OEM. 0-60 is not a Performance Feel metric. There's a lot of emphasis on real world performance. 0-60 numbers are great for folks that drive only at WOT. The 2.4 in the new Toyotas has it's torque peak at 1700 vs 4400 in the 4.0L. If you want torque in the 4.0L you have to floor it or shift manually. In the 2.4 you'll be sitting on peak torque all the time. Every comment I've seen from new LC owners complements the Performance Feel which is exactly what you'd expect from a vehicle empasizing torque.

 

Pull the body off
Sit a pristine looking 2004 4R chassis, with engine trans and driveline next to a new 2024 4R chassis with engine trans and driveline.
If both look new, and both have matching wheels and tires, only about 1% of the world can find the differences between the two. The plastic intake is different, the valve cover is slightly different, the oil filter was relocated lower on the engine block. Aside from those things you cant point out any significant difference except the charcoal canister on the 2004 by the fuel tank. Aside from gear ratio in the trans and HP the engine puts out, the mechanics, the frame, the suspension, the engine and trans are all practically identical. The body, interior, and electronics are all that has changed for the most part.

 

None of that makes a bit of differences in the real world when a 25 LC250 can't get up to freeway speed as quickly as a 15 year old 4Runner, with all that 465 lb-ft of torque and what not. LOL.

 

Similarity in layout does not changes the fact that in MY2010 the HP rating went up by 12% and torque got a minor bump. Are you saying that makes no difference in performance with the same driveline? A 2010 v6 4R is faster than a 2003 v6 4R.

 

If the FJC was a failure, the 200 series was a disaster. The worst FJC sales year was still many many times better than the 200 series best sales year. Toyota sold a lot of FJC early on, and then there was a recession, and unlike the 4runner it never lived long enough to see the off road craze. The 200 series did, and it still wasn't enough.

Doesn't the hybrid LC250 and 4runner share the same engine? I'm very skeptical there is a difference that would cause knocking on 87 octane. Even if it does, the ECU should adjust for it. If it does knock on 87, Toyota screwed up.

I don't feel like these new engines deliver on the promises of efficiency and power largely because the designers increase the size to off set the efficiency improvement. Imagine what an engine capable of moving a 6th gen and getting 20 mpg could do in an earlier 4runner that was smaller and lighter.

 

Setting starting price at equivalent of 106k USD inflation adjusted will do that.

 

I’ve thought many a time about what would it be like to have an 8-speed transmission in my 2021 Pro.

 

Around 2012-2017 Chrysler did just that, they retained the 3.6L Pentastar in their volume models such as JK/JLs, LX/LD cars and such when they moved from the Mercedes sourced 5 speed W5A580 that was comparable to the A570E and replaced it with the ZF 8HP 8 speed. Shaved at least a second if not more off the 0-60 time across the board. To this day the Pentastar/8HP combo is their most reliable motor/transmission combo in recent times.

If Toyota paired the 1GR with a good 8 speed, it would have made the 4Runner a 15 second truck in the 1/4 mile.

A lot of the "LC250 is so amazing" feels are from the 8 speed with closer spaced first 4 gears.

 

If anything, it's a difference in tuning. But, if the ECU isn't tuned to work with 87, it could cause issues.

Usually, when the manufacturer only "recommends" premium, it will run fine on 87, but make more power on premium. But, I believe the LC manual states that it "requires" premium.

It doesn't really make sense to me, though, because I think the LC and 4Runner hybrid are rated at the same power.

I'm sure I'll get corrected if I'm wrong.

 

Interesting read, thanks for the historical context! While I’m not so much interested in ‘track’ performance I’m more wishing for improved towing and general cruising speeds up in the mountains. Despite my possibly getting flamed for saying this but between swapping in a TRD exhaust (the previous owner didn’t like the ‘drone’ and swapped in a standard factory exhaust) and having an mid level OTT tune done I’m experiencing an appreciable gain in mountain driving performance. I believe if even adding a sixth gear I could back down the tune and gain back some MPG while still having adequate ‘power to the wheels’.

 

Shaving 1 second or more to 60 and 1/4 mile is a huge difference in day to day driving, the 8 speed also puts the rpm at more optimal range at any load. Jeep owners found out first hand how much the 8 speed helped.

Personally I am happy with how the 5th gen drives. But I can't imagine getting slower as we get newer products with all those 465 lb-ft of torque though.